My brothers 84 which sat in my garage for 4 months for the transmission, now has the new tranny in it but has developped a leak over the drivers side exaust manifold from the cam housing.

We figure if we are going to have to go to all of the trouble of pullin off the housing to replace the gasket that we are probably going to do the timing belt water pump and a slew of seals/gaskets while we are in there.

My question is if I have to pull the housings can it be done in car or does the motor have to come out. There are advantages for me to pull the motor as then we could do a complete gasket and seal set on the motor and check the lower end. But is that really required? and how long will the car be down.

We have recently added a compressor to the shop so we can work with air ratchets, we already own engine hoists and stands, what do you guys think?


Thanks
Z

 

The camshaft housing can be pulled with the engine in the car. Here's a link on how to get at it on the early cars.
http://www.nichols.nu/tip696.htm

Personally, I wouldn't pull the housing off unless you're sure because it is a PIA to get those hex bolts. Are you sure it's not the distributor seal? That's pretty easy to access.

 

Also check to make sure the leak is not coming from the cap on the back of the cam tower that covers the cam bore. It is a common leak source. The oil runs down, hits the seam where the cam tower and head meet, runs downhill along the seam and then drips onto the header, appearing to be a leaking cam tower gasket. You'll need long strong fingers like Stravinsky to reach it (requires some underneath reaching up work too), but you can do it. If you do pull the cam towers, please take digital photos and post them on Rennlist for the rest of us to learn from. Thanks!

 

The cam gasket can be replaced while in the car, but sure is a PITA. This is especially true on the drivers side, that brake booster seems to always be in the way.
Get your self several allen wrenches so you can cut a few to length. Makes the job much easier.

I would pull the motor only if you have other leaks to address.

 

I am almost wondering if we have a clogged oil return tube on that side of the engine as my brother says that the oil seems to be so pressurized that it is spraying all the way over to the fender wall.


Z

 

The vehicle is mine and from what I can see is that the leak is coming from the botom side of the cam housing on the drivers side. There is even an oil stain on the inside of the wheel well across from the location. I have not been able to get under the car to try to see the spot from underneath if that is even possible. After just a short drive the smoke bellows from underneath the hood like the car is on fire.

One concern I have, is that after sitting for 8 months and getting it running again the oil pressure gauge reads 5 all the time. Only on one occasion has it come down to 3 at idle. Before it used to stay at 3 at idle and got o 5 under engine load. Do I have an oil circulation problem that has caused a blown gasket?

IMO if we are going to take the top of the engine off I would like to replace the following items:
Cam housing gaskets
head gaskets
cam seals
exhaust gaskets
timing belt
water pump
oil pan gasket
rebuild injectors

If we are to under take all of this work would it be easier to pull the engine and if so, should I just replace all seals and gaskets and check the valves and bottom end??

 

Darn No more replies

 

Not sure about the oil pan gasket.... but I had leaks in the same spots on my 78. I am having a shop do the work, since it's just too painful of a job to do in my driveway, especially with the weather being what it is. If I had my own garage and lift I would have done it. They have managed pretty well without pulling the motor, as you can see here . I went to the shop for a peek yesterday and it's almost back together. I didn't have my camera with me yesterday but the belt covers are on and it's down to just the passenger side runners, some hoses, and the various accessory belts.

Every seal and rubber piece has been replaced, even the rubber standoffs under the CIS housing. Head gaskets are fine, so they are being left as-is.... although I did have them re-torque the heads. If you're interested I should have a complete list of parts by the middle of next week or so, and can post it here.

D

 

That would be cool,


Thanks

 

There are pressurized oil passages going into the cam tower so a dramatic leak there is possible.

Whether to pull the engine or not is easy to determine in hindsight, only. It's hard to get the cam towers off and if the bolts are stubborn can take many hours of tedious, frustrating work. I had three or more hours into single bolts! Maybe 25 hours to just get those off and several bolts broke which meant more money at the cylinder head shop.

I'd use a mirror to look at the leak. Might just need to be tightened and would at least try that.

 

I fitted new oil seals today at the back of the heads, and what would be the US drivers side is not much fun, mainly because the head on that side is so much closer to the the firewall. There's also the loom that gets in the way (or there is on RHD cars anyway). It certainly can be done engine in, the WSM says leave a 0.2mm gap between the cam towers and the head, then press in the lightly oiled seal, then torque down the cam towers. Worked fine for me but then engine isn't running yet so who knows!

You'd be unlucky to have any problems with the bolts, they should undo just fine with a 5" or 6" allen key. You can get a hex socket to most of them anyway which makes them easy to undo (and easier to torque back to spec). I would say four seals took me perhaps 60 minutes to install (but the cam covers were allready off and old seals removed). Don't forget you will need the Loctite 574 to seal the cam towers - yet another $30 I hadn't counted on...

 

FMR
My '79 blew both gaskets. They both went in the front corners where the oil is fed up under pressure for the cams and lifters. I was worried that there might be a system wide oil pressure problem, but it seems not to be the case. Its been about a year and so far so far so good. One bit of info is that there are a couple of different gaskets around. My '79 had some that were blue/green and non reinforced around the oil feeds. The new ones I put in were red and had a very strong looking reinforcement around the oil passages. I'm not sure of the old ones were aftermarket or an older version from the factory, but they were probably part of the cause. Also the car had been sitting a long time so that may be an element as well.
Anyway, I think the car is fine, but you probably do have to change the gaskets. It is very doable but not much fun. Be sure to do a good job of moving everything that needs to be moved, such as ac lines, coolant lines, etc, before you loosen the cover. I think the job would have been easier with the intake off, so if you have been wanting to pull everything off and re-hose, cleanup wires etc this might be a good chance.

 

Thanks Everyone for the info,

I will be helping out on this and what you all have posted helps alot. Car is probably going to be down a while as he is going back to school to be an auto mechanic. (He needs to put his GI Bill to use) We will let you know of the progress as soon as the weather here warms up enough to get back out in the garage with the garage door open.

Thanks again
Z.

 

DOH! The workorder doesn't have all of the part numbers on it... Sorry bout that. If you're still thinking head gaskets and oil pan though you can get a complete gasket set for around $400. I think all of the seals and gaskets on my work order amount to maybe $200, but that includes gaskets in the CIS housing as well. Don't get me wrong though... all told it was $1400 in parts.

D

 

With all that work, you may as well take the engine out. Its just easier.