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Getting closer to getting the Porsche 928 SCCA classified as T1

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Getting closer to getting the Porsche 928 SCCA classified as T1

 
Old 03-20-2019, 06:20 PM
  #16  
mark kibort
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Just got the word that the announcement one way or another will be in the SCCA Fast Tracks magazine , APRIL Edition.
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Old 03-20-2019, 07:39 PM
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Fingers crossed!
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:15 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by dr bob View Post
Fingers crossed!
yes!! lets see what they let us have for the 928. they were supposed let it run as it ran in WCGT.... they let the NSX run this way.. 3" wider , 500rwhp, etc! sick! my goal is to just have the car run in a class where the competition looks remotely like production cars!!!! is that too much to ask!!!
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mark kibort View Post
yes!! lets see what they let us have for the 928. they were supposed let it run as it ran in WCGT.... they let the NSX run this way.. 3" wider , 500rwhp, etc! sick! my goal is to just have the car run in a class where the competition looks remotely like production cars!!!! is that too much to ask!!!
What 928 would you race? Your big-displacement stroker with flares and tires and suspension hardly "remotely look like production cars". How about "I just want mine to be a little "more equal" so I can finish closer to the front!".
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Old 03-23-2019, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dr bob View Post
What 928 would you race? Your big-displacement stroker with flares and tires and suspension hardly "remotely look like production cars". How about "I just want mine to be a little "more equal" so I can finish closer to the front!".
Your kidding , right? have you seen the GT2 racers ive been competing against... and by the way, was still able grab a top 10 spot in the national championship Runoffs? transam cars, cup cars (997 GT3 991 GT3), etc...…………. Now, have you seen the T1 cars ? yes, the have big engine mods, HUGE flares because the rules allow for 3" wider tracks.... suspension? of course, all are allowed mild to wild suspension mods...… tires? yes, the same there. so yes, at least the cars in T1 remotely look like production cars..... but still heavily modified. see pics below the ideal engine for the T1 class would be the GTS bore and stroke..... 968 valve heads, cams with 0.6" of lift and I should be able to get the intake mods approved as well. If im running top 10 times with my 375rwhp, I would think we could be easily get near 400 by the above mods. maybe more..... either way, yes, T1 is a group that is more remotely looking like production cars. but look at the NSX , (500hp) or the mustang (500hp) below. these are cars built to the limits.... still way above any mods we have planned or have done on the 928



compared to what I was competing against!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>





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Old 03-25-2019, 04:38 PM
  #21  
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Looks like its been approved but much work to do to separate the 928GTSR of mark anderson and the GTS or S4 and get the proper weights to make the platform on par with others in the class. still some errors to correct in the spec. working on it now
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Old 03-25-2019, 10:19 PM
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Mark --

Is there at least a draft of the proposed class rules available to look at yet?
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Old 03-27-2019, 02:42 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by dr bob View Post
Mark --

Is there at least a draft of the proposed class rules available to look at yet?
Ive been talking with them for days now. trying to loosen up the specs to mirror reality. they seem to think our 5 liters should make 440rwhp like the mustang. I explained, the only 5 liter making big hp 380hp, was one car, and it had modified heads and cams and lasted one track day.
I think the best thing is to make 3 versions of the car. 5 liter, 5.4 liter and the 6.4 liter that ran in WCGT. Im still looking for the VTS that they have proposed.
Looks like ill be running GT2 for a while.. . But, at least we are on the map, in two classes in SCCA National classing! its a start
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:05 PM
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I just got word from SCCA that they reviewed my letter and have made some changes. im sure that this will be a long process. ill need to provide them with data at the track, and we eventually will have a VTS that is fair for the class. the good news is, we are IN THE BOOKS for SCCA GT2 and Touring 1 classes , so now you can show up and race in a 928!
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Old 03-27-2019, 11:55 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by mark kibort View Post
I just got word from SCCA that they reviewed my letter and have made some changes. im sure that this will be a long process. ill need to provide them with data at the track, and we eventually will have a VTS that is fair for the class. the good news is, we are IN THE BOOKS for SCCA GT2 and Touring 1 classes , so now you can show up and race in a 928!
I thought you showed up and raced in SCCA, last year???

This is just so confusing....
You said, last year, that it didn't matter if you finished 15th....that really no one cared about finishing first or even third....that it was just about the thrill of competing with the other people....and finishing 15th was fantastic.

And I said something like: "Finishing 15th, to me, was like you french kissing your grandmother".

Remember this? Ring a bell?

You gave me page after page, months of **** because I said I had never done this....I always prepared and hoped I could win every single time I went to the track? And that I wouldn't bother going to a race where I was hoping I could finish 15th.


And now you're putting in a whole bunch of time and effort to get the SCCA to make a specific "Mark Kibort 928" classification, so you can finish higher in a class?

Why?

And why would they care that you can't build a 928 that can complete, where it is currently running?

So very confusing!
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Old 03-28-2019, 11:55 AM
  #26  
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I just got word that the 928 will be part of the Touring 1 class eligible to run this season !!!!!!!
Good job Mark. There's a lot more "racing" that takes place before any wrench touches a car than most people know. Hours, days and months spent in emails to and from the rules committee is unfortunately all too common when campaigning a car that they are not familiar with. The ECTA and the SCTA have moved my car 3 times into different classes so far...
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:41 PM
  #27  
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Several decades ago now, SCCA made some drastic changes to some class rules to try and level the field for those with less well prepared cars in DSR. I/we had taken a very aggressive look at class rules, and campaigned a car that breezed past others in the class, even when I drove it. By the end of season 2 for us, SCCA rules were loosened to allow almost twice the original 850cc displacement limits in the class, so long as the engines were "production based". It took our technical development project back into middle of the field, unfortunately. But it is "club racing" after all, where investment isn't supposed to be important.


Bottom line is that class rules are somewhat flexible based on the noise levels from the competitors. The 928 may be moved around some, but so long as there are more [pick your popular and current model] competitors, their voices will always be louder than the very few 928 drivers when it comes to class rules. If you start to win consistently and are a minority player, you are doomed to change.

----

Mark -- I thought there was already a touring class for the 928, based on displacement, horsepower and weight. Am I wrong? That kind of classification seems like it would be perfect for the casual weekend campaigner more interested in the driving than the winning. It's been a very long while since I picked up a SCCA rule book.
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:44 PM
  #28  
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Will this be a "National" classification or regional?

With the VERY stock 5.0 S3 Coke Car, it sure would be fun to do some racing.
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Old 03-28-2019, 05:23 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by mark kibort View Post
Your kidding , right? have you seen the GT2 racers ive been competing against... and by the way, was still able grab a top 10 spot in the national championship Runoffs? transam cars, cup cars (997 GT3 991 GT3), etc...…………. Now, have you seen the T1 cars ? yes, the have big engine mods, HUGE flares because the rules allow for 3" wider tracks.... suspension? of course, all are allowed mild to wild suspension mods...… tires? yes, the same there. so yes, at least the cars in T1 remotely look like production cars..... but still heavily modified. see pics below the ideal engine for the T1 class would be the GTS bore and stroke..... 968 valve heads, cams with 0.6" of lift and I should be able to get the intake mods approved as well. If im running top 10 times with my 375rwhp, I would think we could be easily get near 400 by the above mods. maybe more..... either way, yes, T1 is a group that is more remotely looking like production cars. but look at the NSX , (500hp) or the mustang (500hp) below. these are cars built to the limits.... still way above any mods we have planned or have done on the 928



compared to what I was competing against!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




Just because you don't want to make the mods/can't afford to make the mods to compete with these cars, doesn't mean that it can't be done, right?

It sounds like you just want the SCCA to give you a "Mark Kibort 928" class....a 6.5 liter, otherwise stock engine, with big tires, big brakes, and weight removed.

Let's see....there's a total of one (1) of those, in the entire country.....and you want it to be in a "special class".

What happens when someone serious comes along and has a well prepared 928 with modern goodies like decent suspension, ABS, and 600hp?

What does the SCCA do with that 928? You're not going to want to race against it....

Another custom class?

How about we just get the SCCA to issue you a "participation trophy", every time you show up?
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:21 PM
  #30  
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I have a feeling that the suspension geometry on those newer cars and the engine tuning and power would make them untouchable by anything but a 100k 928.

As F1 shows, development is what wins races. And we are now on a different timeline for the 928.

(Edit: And money) I understand this is anecdotal - but a modern chassis is just so much undeniably more developed. What if someone shows up in a properly cooled Z06 and wishes to run T1? How much can they modify it from stock and still be in T1? That car would smash. Is a GT3 RS like car going to be in T1? With an 8 speed or whatever PDK?
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