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R12 Refrigerant Availability

 
Old 06-11-2018, 12:33 PM
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Bertrand Daoust
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Default R12 Refrigerant Availability

Hello,

By any chance, any one would know where I can get some R12 refrigerant?
That if there is some still available!
There's none AFAIK on this side of the border.
There is some r12a but that's something different...

I would need 2 small cans.

Thank you.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:03 PM
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WyattsRide
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Originally Posted by Bertrand Daoust View Post
Hello,

By any chance, any one would know where I can get some R12 refrigerant?
That if there is some still available!
There's none AFAIK on this side of the border.
There is some r12a but that's something different...

I would need 2 small cans.

Thank you.
Brother. If you can wait until Frenzy I'm pretty sure I'll have two cans for you.
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by WyattsRide View Post
Brother. If you can wait until Frenzy I'm pretty sure I'll have two cans for you.
That would be great Rick.
Thanks Brother!
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:42 PM
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Rob Edwards
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Painfully expensive, but at at least it's avaiable:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/R-12-Refrig...EAAOSwv95Z32Sv

Plus $20 to take the EPA 609 certification (open book...) test to be eligible to buy R12:

https://www.epatest.com/609/
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Old 06-11-2018, 01:52 PM
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So what's the story with Red Tek R12a? They say it's a direct replacement for R12. Sold in the US and inexpensive. Anybody using it?

http://www.redtek.com/win_12a_prod.html
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:01 PM
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Thanks Rob.
I might go that way if it doesn't work with Rick.

Nate, Good question.
I read often that this was not a good option but don't remember why.
It's available here without problems.

What do you guys think about that stuff?
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:27 PM
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Hi Nate,

I'm using the redtek R12a to replace the 134a that the PO had converted over to. Working very well. Used one can of Oil charge R12 and 2 cans of R12a starting with a zero psig system. Operating Low side pressure came out to 36 psig.

Yes I'm aware that this is hydrocarbon material. Being a Chemical Engineer with 40+ years Oil Refinery experience, I fully understand the properties of this material.

As long as you are replacing a 1st gen R12 replacement, like 134a, you are EPA compliant. You cannot directly replace R12 with R12a and be EPA compliant. AFAIK the wording of this EPA language, as strange as it seems. was written to stop folks from just venting the R12 and adding to the ozone depletion problem.
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:29 PM
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South of the border here in the USA there is always R12 in the 12 - 16 oz size cans available on Craigslist. Going rate is $20-30 US dollars per can. Demand is not what it once was and you see more and more people willing to part with the big containers the pros used. It's not what you would exactly call cheap compared to 134a, but there is plenty out there.

I would not use a "substitute." Pros will not touch a car that has an R12 alternative in the system.
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Old 06-11-2018, 02:51 PM
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Bertrand,
I have two 12 oz cans of R12 I'll sell for $70 ($35 each) plus shipping if you'd like it sooner. I'll sell it because I have about 25lbs left in my large container.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Taguid View Post

Bertrand,
I have two 12 oz cans of R12 I'll sell for $70 ($35 each) plus shipping if you'd like it sooner. I'll sell it because I have about 25lbs left in my large container.
Tracy,
I don't want to open a can of worms. (or R12) But, can you ship cans of refrigerant legally? Doesn't the recipient have to have some kind of license?

Like Otto says, there's plenty out there to purchase here in the US. I was buying them for $25/can on Craigs List locally for the last couple years. Of course everyone wanted more per can. But I would offer $25 max/can for all they had and they usually agreed. My car has been converted to 134a so I don't need what I have anymore.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:08 PM
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You can't ship that to Canada. It's illegal here and could cause trouble for the receiver. I have had R12 shipped to my NY address from Roger with no issue.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:13 PM
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So if someone can ship those, I also have US address to send them.
I'll get back to you tonight after work.

Thanks a lot.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by WyattsRide View Post
Tracy,
I don't want to open a can of worms. (or R12) But, can you ship cans of refrigerant legally? Doesn't the recipient have to have some kind of license?

Like Otto says, there's plenty out there to purchase here in the US. I was buying them for $25/can on Craigs List locally for the last couple years. Of course everyone wanted more per can. But I would offer $25 max/can for all they had and they usually agreed. My car has been converted to 134a so I don't need what I have anymore.
Not sure on the license when selling from individual to individual but I am just selling them at what I paid for them. I know when selling on Ebay there is a licensing requirement. Maybe Rob Edwards knows the answer. I was just offering to Bertrand as a fellow rennlister since he is in need.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 928S MN View Post
Hi Nate,

I'm using the redtek R12a to replace the 134a that the PO had converted over to. Working very well. Used one can of Oil charge R12 and 2 cans of R12a starting with a zero psig system. Operating Low side pressure came out to 36 psig.

Yes I'm aware that this is hydrocarbon material. Being a Chemical Engineer with 40+ years Oil Refinery experience, I fully understand the properties of this material.

As long as you are replacing a 1st gen R12 replacement, like 134a, you are EPA compliant. You cannot directly replace R12 with R12a and be EPA compliant. AFAIK the wording of this EPA language, as strange as it seems. was written to stop folks from just venting the R12 and adding to the ozone depletion problem.
Interesting.Here is the EPA wording from Red Tek's FAQ page (assuming they copied it correctly)

"Does RED TEK® 12a™ need EPA approval? A. RED TEK® 12a™ is a second generation, non-ozone depleting replacement for R-134a and all other non-ozone depleting R-12 substitutes. The EPA's Final Rule, issued April 1, 1994, states: "In this final rule, the Agency has determined that second generation replacements, if they are non-ozone depleting and are replacing non-ozone depleting first generation alternatives, are exempt from reporting requirements under Section 612".

So what if you have a leak in your AC system and all of the R12 has already been vented into the atmosphere? Now you go and get the AC leak repaired. Can you then refill it with R12A? In this case you are technically not "replacing" anything.
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Old 06-11-2018, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Taguid View Post
Not sure on the license when selling from individual to individual but I am just selling them at what I paid for them. I know when selling on Ebay there is a licensing requirement. Maybe Rob Edwards knows the answer. I was just offering to Bertrand as a fellow rennlister since he is in need.
Tracy,
I'm not disputing your intentions to help a Rennlister. Nor am I undermining or criticizing what you want per can. That agreement is up to Bertrand and yourself. I just thought the mailing of the cans, of what the PO or EPA considers "Hazardous Material" is more complicated. Maybe it isn't.
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