mark kibort

So, lets stop "deflecting " and let us know what led you to the rod change that could have been a cause for two motor failures. Im not saying its the cause, but its all about narrowing down the variables.

guess what.. they have an app for that too! it doesnt matter the exhuast config or HP. the harmonics and frequencies are based on pitch and that pitch is directly proportional to RPM.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/engi...340401811?mt=8

GregBBRD

You have absolutely no information of value about either failure....you're just stirring ****.

If you knew even a tiny amount, you'd know that Mark's intake system had broken off at the base (again) and the engine was sucking in a cr@pload of nonmetered air:
Even you might be smart enough to know that nonmetered air is going to make a cylinder very lean and very likely to detonate.

Would you like a picture of the broken manifold? Oh wait....I'm sure you heard that intake leak!

Like I said, Carrillo had a free hand in regard to changing the rod design.....and chose not to do anything.

And yet the failure is completely my fault......**** off



AND BTW....You've got the same exact design rod in your engine. It might be longer, but the beam is EXACTLY the same. You should be very afraid....maybe you should stop driving your car.

hacker-pschorr

I was amazed to discover the engine that lasted 5 years did so with STOCK Porsche 928 rod bearings in custom replacement Carrillo rods. I had assumed (and I'm sure most everyone else did) your most successful motor was using the "Chevy" rod bearing formula. I'm sure Todd wasn't aware of this or he never would have used Chevy rod bearings in the motor that ultimately ended up in Koborts car.


To be fair, the supercharged stroker in his personal car lasted just fine with Mark driving at Road America.........until the transmission failed.

I had a good laugh at that too. Then I realized Catorce wasn't familiar with Twin Turbo Todd's work and it would have been a moot point anyway, since Todd has no interest in building any more motors except for himself and the one he promised me years ago.

However......the "clone" to Kiborts motor is still sitting, un-assembled at a friends shop. Someday I'm going to regret not buying it. It's worth far more than the sum of its parts..........


On the topic of who's the best, that's always going to be open for discussion. What we can do is line up 928 accomplishments:

• Fastest 928 in history: Carl Fausett at Bonneville @ 217mph
• Fastest 928 down the 1/4 mile: Twin Turbo Todd @ 155mph
• Most powerful stroked & supercharged 928 engine: Carl Fausett (do not recall his peak power number)
• Most powerful 928 engine in history: Twin Turbo Todd @ 940rwhp (anyone who doubts this claim can see the 1/4 mile top speed)
• Open Road 210mph club: George Suennen with a 5 liter Murf928 Supercharger
• Open Road 200+ mph club: Some DEVEK Stroker. I don't recall the full details on this one
• 1/4 mile time in the 11's: Soupcan with a Murf928 Supercharger on a stock 5.0 with a shot of NOS
• My 4.5 liter US car with a Murf928 Supercharge puts down 400rwhp. Not sure that's the highest on record for a US 16V, but it could be.
• Largest N/A strokers: Mike Simard @ 7 Liters
• Louie Ott, He's in heres somewhere, not finding his stats though
• John Kuhn fits in here somewhere with his impressive turbo setup.
• Power powerful EuroS based 16V race car: Jean-Louis with a stock 10:1 CR EuroS engine with a Murf928 supercharger @ 375rwhp
• Most hours logged on a 928 race engine: Mark Kibort piloting the stroker designed and built by Twin Turbo Todd
• Carl's latest engine going into the DEVEK chassis is on the top of the pile too.

I'm sure there are a lot more, that's all I have off the top of my head.


Back to Mark Anderson's two failed motors, which Carrillo rods were used?
When Todd designed the Kibort motor, he specifically went with the extreme heavy duty rods by Carrillo, designed around the strongest Carr 7/16 rod bolts. I can only assume rods of the same strength were used for Anderson's two race engines. If yes I really want to get this information back to Todd since I'm 99% sure that is what is in his turbocharged engine.

As for Kiborts motor, full details on that build can be found here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...l#post13342314


EDIT - didn't see this post:
So you DID use Carrrillo extreme HD rods designed around 7/16 Carr bolts in Mark's engine?

The fact that they are longer means they are not "exactly" the same........ Todd didn't spec them that length on accident.

GregBBRD

The rods are not failing at the bolts....they are failing on the beam...or on the strap. (I can't be certain, as all of these pieces were gone, on Mark's engine.)

BTW....Carrillo laughs all the way to the bank, when someone specs 7/16" Carr bolts in a rod like this.....the larger bolt takes material away from both the cap and the actual rod. The 3/8" bolts are stronger than the actual rod by a factor of over 2! With the reduction of material at the parting line, the Carr bolt is stronger than the rod by a factor larger than that. Carrillo designed the "Carr" bolt for engines that needed to come apart frequently. The "standard" A6 bolt is only good for about 10 tightenings. The "Carr" bolt is good for over 100.

The rods that Todd uses are exactly the same design in the beam and the strap. They have used "my" design for the beam, the strap, and the offset for all their 928 specification rods, for quite a few years.

BTW...Turbocharged engines are super easy on connecting rods....one can "get away" with almost anything. Almost all rod failures occur on the exhaust stroke....and the addition of turbo back pressure has a huge impact on the loading of the rod.....it essentially cushions the rod on the exhaust stroke.

GregBBRD

You might (being Todd's Superfanboi might preclude you from caring) be interested in how many times the rod bearings got pounded out and got replaced in Mark's engine that "lasted" 5 years (of course, Mark would never mention this.) One of those times, the engine was so "stuck" that the engine could not be rotated by the starter motor.....or a long ratchet. I could turn it with a 5' breaker bar.)

Looking back, now, I'm sure that was probably my fault, also.

Carl Fausett

Greg - keep me out of this. You have 2 X more con rod failures in your race motors than I have. (I have none, and my engines make more HP than yours).

You will have to explain your engine failures on your own, and making up stories about other builders does not do that.

CORRECTION: I have had one engine throw a rod. It was 2015 at Road America when my throttle body stuck wide open and I foolishly tried to drive it around to the pits instead of shutting it off and getting towed in. (Testosterone and adrenaline make stupid people out of smart ones). Made it too. The engine tossed a rod after I reached the pits and pushed in the clutch. Lesson learned. Next time: shut it off, get towed in, fix the throttle body, and go out again.

SwayBar

Greg, are you okay? Seriously...

hacker-pschorr

Guess you need to start bringing your cars to Wisconsin

8,000rpm dyno run, this is one of many....
The guys at Beyond Rednline are not afraid to spin motors up that high.

Four other dyno's (Superflow, Mustang, Dynodynamics, and another Dynojet) within 45 minute drive of this shop will do the same.

Todd and Luke were going to run the engine up to 9,000rpm on the dyno, but they were exceeding the roller speed of the dyno drums (using 3rd gear). His rev limiter is set to 9,000rpm and he's bounced the engine off this limit about 40 times now....and the engine is still pulling.
This is true RPM as logged in Autornic.
He's thinking about moving the rev limiter to 9.400rpm.

For those playing at home, this engine has stock 928 rod bearings in custom Dyer's Top Rods (I was incorrect before assuming they were Carrillo). They are forged out of 300m

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...deo-added.html

mark kibort

Greg, you are forgetting the obvious. Mark had the intake failure that caused the engine to grenade on a GREAT engine, that YOU made, AT ROAD AMERICA. IT raced and lasted many years. YOU know we are talking about the replacement engine that was working after it, and you took it apart because you thought the rod design was subject......... you did the same to both joes and marks new engine..Marks then blew up at Auto Club Speedway after turn 5 after just a few hours of racing, just like Joes engine blew a couple of weeks ago at AUTO CLUB SPEEDWAY (also low hours)

and,if you knew a "tiny" amount about engines, super lean doesnt equal detonation. stoich means detonation. yes, the unmetered air that caused the detonation , but it wasnt a "cr@pload" of unmetered air that did it, it was just enough to make the mixture detonate and that happens near Stoich (14.7:1 AFR)

so, instead of insulting me and being confused, you FINALLY address the issue in your last sentence. so, when corillo chose to take a "free hand" in the design.. is this what you disagreeed with and gave them a new design that failed? what was wrong with their design? i dont know.. im just asking because it seems to be a consistant factor in both engines. sure , im not blaming you. im just trying to understand

mark kibort

Holly Mother of all that is amazing in the world!!!! WOW!

hacker-pschorr

Many 928's have failed due to detonation, many under boost making more power than the engine in question. Cylinder walls, pistons, rod-bearings..... have failed, few if any connecting rods have failed that I'm aware of, and those were STOCK rods.

Here we have a bored out block with even thinner cylinder walls and the failure is a Carrillo rod. I've been wondering if there is any way to know if both failed rods came from the same casting batch.

Where have you been, that's from 2013 and the project was already a few years in!!

Same motor, still together.

mark kibort

I remember it, just didnt remember the RPM!! 8K crazy! makes us all feel like a bunch of short-shifters!
as far as the failure.... i was thinking about the batch issue too. but then, you would think that other rods would have shown some signs of pre-failure too. we might never find out.

Catorce

I find it disgusting that you keep dragging Mark Anderson's name through the mud and impugn him at any chance you get. I have known Mark for 15+ years. He's really a quiet guy, doesn't say much, and is very humble and loath to come on this board and boast or talk trash about someone. Even the way he presented this engine failure is pretty meek. Mark Anderson has done more for the 928 community than probably anyone. Quit calling him out.

hacker-pschorr

There's always a weakest link. Not sure what it takes to inspect the other 7???

Catorce

Inspecting the other 7 is easy. They all get X-rayed, they all get mag checked, and the big and little ends get measured for roundness so you can see if the rod is doing something other than going straight up and down.

X ray tells you about how the forging was constructed. MAG tells you if it has cracks too small to see with the naked eye.