epbrown01

I'm thinking of getting an 83-84 928S, but rather than the usual "which is best?" question (they all seem pretty good to me), I have a different one: which is easiest for a home mechanic to work on? I plan to do as much of my own maintenance as I can. Are the 32-valve cars more maintenance intensive, or do they require special (expensive) tools? Are parts prices significantly higher for some years than others?

From my reading on the subject, it seems the early 928S models achieve a happy medium of performance and reliability, compared to the slower earlier cars and the more complex later models, but I'd like some actual owner experiences.

Emanuel

Marc Schwager

From what I have read on these boards, the 84 has pretty mysterious wiring, and questionable documentation as well. The WSMs have the current flow diagrams for the 83 which are very useful. So for purely electrical reasons, I'd look for an 83. One large category you will be repairing on any of the 928s is the electrical system. Do a search on "gremlins" to get examples.

Dozman

Not to be a smart ***, But buy the best maintained 928 you can get. If you buy a fixer upper, you may find yourself spending an endless amount of time and $$$ to get the shark where you want it.

No matter what shark you buy you'll need metric tools, a multi-meter, a mity-vac, a set of manuals (in paperback form or CD) and the most important tool is all the advice you can get from this board.

epbrown01

I agree with that completely. As they say in Sports Car Market letter, you pay for the maintenance the previous owner did, and they throw in the car for free. I much prefer to buy well up front and simply keep up the maintenance than try to make up for someone else's abuse. I'm just looking for an idea of how maintenance-intensive the 928 is, even with a good example. My 911 is 20 years old and I've been impressed with how little it needs to keep running, but it has far fewer electronics than a 928!

Emanuel

ViribusUnits

The L-jet cars are not bad as far as do it your selfers.

The L-jet intake is pretty good about being serviceable. It's rpetty easy to get under the intake for most stuff. Rarly will you have to pull it. The injectors are up frount and center, as are most of the sensors. The throtal body microswitchs are hard to get to with the intake in place, but it's possible. This is most diffrent from the 32v cars. On the 85-86, you have to pull the boxes on the organ to get to the injectors. The S4s have at least once vacum line that runs under the intake, and you have to pull the intake to replace it.

Also, on the L-jet cars, you've got one set of ignition componets. One box, one distributer, one rotor, one coil, one coil lead. Makes trouble shooting a little easyer in my opinion.

It is possible to adjust your mixture, and very easy to adjust your ignition timeing on the L-jet cars.

The 85-86 air boxes, and air tubes, are no longer made, so they're difficult to get too.

The 32 valve cars are more sensitive to screw ups. For example, if you break the T-belt on a 32 valve car, you need a head job. On a 16 valve car, normaly, you just need a new belt. If you forget to flush out the brake system, up to 86.5 the cars have iron calipers, that don't corrod as badly as the aluminum ones. The 16" tires are cheaper than the 17". The brake pads are cheaper, rotors are about the same.

The L-jet cars also have a simpler electrical system, for the most part. The down side to that is the 84s have nearly impossible to figure out wireing diagrams, and are not identical to the 83s.

On the down side, the older cars have the twin clutch set up. Really strong, and sturdy, but difficult to adjust, and sometimes the adjustments wear out. This seems to cause the syncros of the older cars to wear out prematurly, and this makes you want for a transmition rebuild. 2 grand bye bye. The older cars have a viscus fan clutch. Simpler than the later electronic, but when if it fails, it's very expensive to replace. Sometimes you can refresh them with some toyota fluid. Sometimes not.

Parts are about the same accrost the board, expceting that the S4s have more of them, but the older cars parts are sometimes no longer im production. Some parts are more expensive on the later cars, some more so on the earler cars, but it's not a clear cut deal. It's also about the same for the special tools. Your basicly going to need the same ones eighter way, well slightly diffrent, but that do the same thing, and have the same price. Only thing to watch out for is the 85 and up are **** to time caused ECU failure, something the 80-84 cars don't have a problem with.

I'd say the 80-84 cars are easer to work on than the later ones, because they don't have as big of an intake, don't have as many parts, and a more bullet proof engine. But the 85 and up are deffently faster. Oh and the older cars usualy require more work.

Suit yourself.

epbrown01

Thanks, VU - very detailed and helpful.

edited: follow-up question - is there a reason there are so few 83s available? Every source I check shows nearly 2x as many cars for every other year than 1983. For example, Autotrader has 25 1985s, 32 1984s, and 10 1983s in the 928 listings right now, countrywide. Just a bad sales year? I thought there'd be more, as that was the year the 928 was crowned "fastest street-legal production car sold in the US."

Emanuel

UKKid35

Apparently S3's (the 32v engine in an S2 body which you don't get here in the UK) have head studs rather than head bolts as used in every other model, this make cylinder head removal impossible without removing the engine.

If you are a home mechanic then cam belt issues on the later cars shouldn't concern you, as you are more likely to be aware of their importance and doing lots of preventative maintenance.

The LH ECU is prone to failure (and it is guaranteed to happen when you are as far from home as you have ever driven - I know!) but it is a one off fail that should cost $500 to rectify - once you work out what's happened.

Other electrical issues seem to be more a matter of whether the car has been laid up for any length of time, rather than the model year.

jserio

TO be honest with you. Make sure everything electrical works properly. If someone tells you "oh it only needs" run far and fast from that vehicle unless the seller has it in writing. Otherwise if something doesn't work figure it never will again. It even be wiser to take it to a 928 pro and spensing a few bucks to check it out. I am definately doing that if I get another one.

UKKid35

My aircon was defunct when I bought my car, so ignored it knowing it would cost more than I was prepared to spend. 18 months later after a blistering summer I decided to have the system refilled - just in case. Cost me $100 and now it works perfectly...

pgs928

I have been running an ' 88 S4 Auto for 10 years (282000Km). For the last 8 years or so I have maintained the car myself, because of ridiculuously high servicing costs. Apart from regular oil, fluid and filter changes ther have been no major problems. The car uses no oil between services.

The car is used as a daily commuter - around 60 km per day.

I guess what I am saying is - do the preventative maintenence and enjoy the car.

epbrown01

Serious pet peeve of mine when buying a car is hearing the phrase "Oh, that, it proably just needs a fuse." If that's true, I'm supposed to be reassured by the knowledge you couldn't be bothered to swap in a 50-cent fuse? I'm supposed to think that even though you couldn't spend 5 minutes changing a fuse to fix a problem, you've done the messy job of crawling under the car and changing the oil, or bleeding the brakes on time and changing the pads, hell, even checking the oil level and tire pressure?! Yeah, right.

How can someone NOT see what they're telling a potential buyer when they say that? That either they're lying, lazy, or stupid, and none of those are reassuring qualities in a previous car owner.

Or, in a less rant-like mode...ditto!

Emanuel

John Krawczyk

My '79 was pretty well sorted out and clean as a whistle when i bought and the only major repair job its needed that i couldnt do myself (an only because i was pretty new to the car) was install new shocks. The old buggers are pretty easy to work on. Mechanical fuel injection, non-interfernece motor, symetrical stub axles, less electrics to go wrong. Some would argue even better build quality since the early '78-79's were practically handbuilt cars. That being said, i'd agree with Dozman. My '79 turned out to be best example of 928 I could find at the time i bought it. With the money i paid, i could have bought a driver S4, but my case is the exception and not the norm. I paid above marked value for condition.

GlenL

To the original question: I believe the older cars with CIS fuel injection are the easiest to work on. That'd be 78-79 US and 78-83 Euro cars. Fewer electronic doo-dads. No fussy computers.

If you want an '83? Get an '83 Euro. You'll be glad you did!

karl ruiter

I find my '79 and '82 pretty similar to work on. I prefer the '82 L jet to the CIS, but then I am an electronic engineer. The L jet is more likely to just go out suddenly(never happened to me) but lots of people have CIS cars that they cannot get to run just exactly right. The '79 has less crappy electronics in it, but more crappy pneumatics. There are things about the '82 that make working on it a bit easier...such as it has lag bolts that help you tighten all the belts on the front of the motor while on the '79 you have to do the old pry with on hand and tighten with the other trick. I also prefer the '82(s) in general...better handeling, better power, better brakes, better overall feel, but I can't figure out why that would be. It might just be because my '79 has had a really hard life and the recovery from that will take a few more years to be complete.

Rich9928p

There aren't that many differences between the '83 and '84 928. Some of the differences that may make the '84 a better deal for you are:

- no aluminum ball joint carriers ($500 or more to replace) ... if you buy an '83 or earlier car, be sure to check for these

- better "in door" radio speakers (newer multiple round vs. single behind the panel) [note, this varies, some 84s may have the old style speakers]

- round tooth cam belt vs. older style square

- no OXY warning light and clicky mile counter

I have an '83 and previously owned an '84. Not much difference.

BTW, one of the least expensive upgrades is to go with GTS wheels/tire sizes. It really improves the driving feeling.