brrt50cal

A lot depends on the driver too Ag. I took a type S on the highway. It was very close but I pulled it at the end. I guess it didn't help much that a girl was driving the RSX.

Stefan

Pick on someone your own Sex

Then again, I've seen some seriously aggressive drivers here and they're young females!

For the point of this discussion, I think we assume that the driver is the same person since they will be the ones in car A or car B.

schlag

You forgot about the GT3.

2004 Porsche 911 GT3
Base price: $99,990
HP: 380 hp SAE
Torque: 285 ft-lb
Curb weight - 3042
0-60 - 4.3s
Top speed - 190mph
Nurburgring laptime: 7 min 56.33sec (Rohrl, fastest production-car lap ever)

2004 Acura NSX (3.2 MT)
Base Price: $89,000
HP: 290 hp
Torque: 224 ft-lb
Curb weight - 3153 lbs.
0-60 - 4.8(? taken from some random website ?)
Top speed - 168mph (? taken from some random website ?)
Nurburgring laptime: has it ever even seen the Nurburgring?

I know which one I'de rather have ...

Stefan

What is a Volvo 240???

if you want to experience GRIP ... try your volvo out on a winter race course

Does this mean that all wheel drive cars don't handle great either?

Jamie944

Boy has this thread taken on a life of it's own. I don't know why several of you think I am a straight line guy. I have stated and stated that is not what I enjoy. I just stated that getting from point A to point B was really slow in the car I drove. I also stated I have driven nice versions of a 944 and I feel that my car handles better. I didn't take into consideration what several of you said that it takes time to get used to these cars. In reality they may handle better than mine. I have just gotten so used to mine and know it inside and out that it feels like an extension of me when I am driving. Also it is a front wheel drive. Not rear wheel drive which is totally different. I will admit that at 65 mph I was amazed I would have sworn I was going 40 to 45mph if I hadn't checked the speedometer. Who knows I may have driven several fine examples of 944's and didn't realize because I am so used to my car and it's set up. I have it tuned it just the way I want it. Which could still be less than an average 944. It was stated earlier that someone had dreamed of a 944 for years also and were disapointed when they drove one. They had a completely different idea of what this car should do and how it should handle. For the people that keep asking what kind of Honda it is a 1992 Honda Prelude Si. it has four wheel steering very extensive suspension mods 17" rims with 40 series tires. I have sway bar upgrades and both upper front and rear sway bars I have completely adjustable coilover suspension and brake upgrades. I have done several engine upgrades and also upgraded the stereo although that doesn't make it faster.
But I still want a 944 over anything else on the road. It is a love affair I have had since the first one I saw back in 1984. I will keep driving them until I find the right one. I have waited this long so I can be patient until it comes along.

Ag951

It's now obvious you know nothing about cars.
Lexus is the best built car line on the planet. Period.
Most (all?) volvos are either FWD or AWD. Although both are good for safety, neither is very good for performance handling. All Lexus performance sedans are RWD. The lexus sporty cars are all RWD. The only non-RWD cars they make are the AWD SUVs.
As for your comment about the 240 being superior to the NSX...It's just too ridiculous. I looked it up on edmunds (the 1990 version). It's a 4-door luxury sedan with a weak I-4 engine. Yes it's RWD, but that doesn't mean too much, especially when it's so weak in other areas. I bet it has a really comfy ride, which means it has a soft suspension that would suck on a track.
Most Volvos are designed to have massive understeer. That way if some idiot loses control, a blip of throttle will correct the car. It makes the volvo a great car on the street but a poor choice for the track.
Oversteering is not always a good thing. Neutral handling is usually better. And you're wrong. FWD cars can oversteer. I've seen it. I can get you some footage of it. A friend of mine has great footage of his Sentra and Neon oversteering on autoXes. If you increase the tire pressure and/or put on a rear swaybar, the back end slides around easily, just like any other car. The difference is when you give a FWD some throttle, the oversteer is reduced or negated.


Is the GT3 a full production car? I thought it was more of a stripped down, street legal, limited production, race car. In either case, it's more expensive than the NSX, so I'd hope it's better. And I think I know which one you'd rather have. Me too, but I'd be very happy with the NSX too. If I had the cash, I'd get one of each (but I'd get a 993 GT2 first).

bloodraven

I don't know if anyone has realized this yet...but this guy never said he wanted a 944 for track racing and stuff, he said just for fun driving. No one buys a Volvo for track racing. If I had to choose a car for daily driving, between a Lexus and a Volvo, I would go with a Volvo. I personaly think lexus's suck. I have driven about 7 of them and didn't like a single one. You have GOT to understand that its all a matter of opinion. I personnaly don't like Lexus, and I think that aside from Porsche, the best car manafacturer for the money is Mazda. The 6 is a great car, as is the RX-8, the Protege 5, and even the older Mazda's. All of them handle great and accelerate great for what they are. They are dependable, fast, comfortable, sporty, and nice looking. Good gas mileage, lots of good stuff.

Just my $.02

And yes, the GT3 will be a full production car. Its like the little brother of the GT2...

IMor

Du, du, du, dude ... you are after all talking about a Porsche here! With all due respect to my turbo friends, the 944 n/a is a car that should put a big grin on your face. If it doesn't when you take it for a spin ... WALK AWAY ... FAST!

OK, to be clear, we're not talking about American muscle car ponies leaving the line at a green light. Others will say that the 944 n/a is all about handling. Bull. With emphasis on the handling, don't undersell the type of performance you should expect out of the n/a. It goes pretty good! No, it's not a turbo but you'd be foolish to compare it to a 911 or a 5.0 litre Mustang so why would anyone compare it to a turbo? Important concept follows immediately: COMPARE APPLES WITH APPLES!

The n/a is an outstanding car and I defy anyone to realistically compare it to another 4-banger with comparable displacement. It has plenty of torque for a daily driver and has the type of reliability that you might demand of a Japanese car. Leave it be at that. If you want something faster, buy something faster. If you want turbo performance, buy a turbo ... period!

Kelly Chiu

As a Volvo driver, I have to get in my two cents.

You would be surprised at the agility of a Volvo 240... for a car weighing 3500+ lbs, its VERY nimble... the road holding abilities are far superior than allot of other cars on the road. As for quality, durabilty and innovations, the old Volvo has ANY japanese car company beat... except maybe Mazda and rotary engine.

Volvo 240

Introduced in the 1970s, had 4 wheel disk brakes (even though this was Volvo's base model some Japanee cars still use drums in the back). Safety, self explanitory, but most of it is in the body structure... the 240's chassis is still stiffer than allor of new cars, that pays dividends on the track. Other innovations included one of the first cars ever to have an O2 sensor for emissions (Lamda Sound), also one of the first cheap cars to have Bosch motronic.

Durability, simple design, runs forever... parts are cheap (among european cars)... many example have 500,000 miles and beyond... Volvo life expectancies are 250,000+ miles at the minimum. I know that Corollas and some Hondas can do that, but will the car look and feel like its falling apart? Would it still get the same gas mileage? Will it still have the same power... I drive a 91 740, same engine, boxer body, it has 250,000+ same power and gas mileage as new.

All Volvos use componets that are meant for much more expensive cars... the transmission on the 240 is the same unit as the ones used on the Mk III Supras etc.

So please drive one and see for yourself... it might not as cool as a Honda or look like a bar of soap, but Volvo (at least the old RWD ones) made some of the best cars.

FWD was and still is nothing more than a result of bean counters telling us what is good for them is good for us. FWDs only real advantage is at the assembly line... the engine and transmission are pre-mated and can be placed into the chassis with less work. As for the handling dynamics, yes they can be made decent handlers, as they are finally doing after 20 years on the market.

As for Lexus they are so Bourgeoisie, every lunkhead in LA who wants to look rich has one... and its usually a lease paid for with credit. The ultimate Posermobile Yes their quality is good, and have nice products, but they are lacking in the innovation department.

Yes Japanese cars have made inroads, and they do make a decent product... however they don't excite me in any shape or form... they are just there... Although I will be getting Mazda Protoge to replace the 740 when it dies.

trebor_quitman

? 944S2.5 ?

ERAU-944

yeah, S2 is 3L, as is the 968(almost called the 944S3... so that rules it out for your car), so maybe you have the 944S.5 (944 n/a with 3.0l... is yours twin cam?), ok whatever, just going for historical accuracy.

-Michael-

Fishey

Well just to give you some information and not be an assclown
Volvo starting makeing FWD car's in 1994 in major numbers. Here are the car's 850, S70, V70, C70, S40, V40, S60, V70 were FWD, unless otherwise noted as AWD models
2004 V70R, S60R are AWD
So actually most volvo's are RWD and not FWD.

"especially when it's so weak in other areas. I bet it has a really comfy ride, which means it has a soft suspension that would suck on a track."

VOLVO WINS 1985 European Touring Car Championship
VOLVO 4th 1985 Australian Touring Car Championship
VOLVO WINS 1986 Australian Touring Car Championship
VOLVO WINS 1985 German Touring Car Championship
VOLVO WINS 1987 and 1988 Southeast Asian Touring Car Championship - Zepspeed Volvo team
VOLVO WINS 1987 and 1988 Thailand Touring Car Championship
VOLVO WINS 1987 and 1988 Malaysian Touring Car Championship, Penang

Volvo has 4 piston caliper Brembo brakes after 1975 Stock (240 model).
Were was Lexus and Honda?
Volvo went to Fully Galvanized body Panels in 1985 on all models.
Were was Lexus and Honda?

When I was talking oversteer I mean power on oversteer...

Before you talked about modifying the Honda, you act like I cannot modify a volvo 240... because let me tell you if you think you can't you are very mistaken.

The volvo 240DL only weights 2,928lbs and is extremly roomy.

To this day honda doesnt make a fully galvanized body they only do panels that see alot of weather...I cannot find any information about Lexus but I am searching. (update) Galvanized steel used in all areas of the body except the passenger compartment and the roof - Lexus 2003 models. No other information found.

"The Jap automakers of the 80s flat out refused to pay PPG for the electrodeposition primer product/process
developed for use in the late 70s. If they had, not near as
many of us would be fighting the body cancer bug that we are"
<-- Honda Board Member

jp944

It sure is fun to drift an LS400, though.

jp

Ag951

Every volvo listed on edmunds for 2003 and 2004 is fwd or awd.

Those volvo touring cars are probably not anywhere near stock, but I bet they're a blast to drive.
I'm sure a volvo can be modified. Hell give an expert mechanic a Hyundai and a good budget and he'll build a screamer on the track. But your statement was that the volvo 240 is better than an Acura NSX, which is just untrue.
Given a $90000 budget to either buy an NSX or buy and mod a 240, the 240 would probably kick the NSX's ***, but stock vs. stock, or modded vs. modded, the NSX will toast the volvo. The same can be said about used BMWs, Porsches, etc. Of course the same could be said about a '91 NSX, they take to turbocharging really well.

And you're correct, it's not possible to get throttle-on oversteer on a normal FWD car, but the first time you didn't specify throttle.

SidViscous

Mac's suck

A dell is nothing but a gateway with leather keyboard rests.