Good buy or bad buy ?
05-02-2015, 12:19 AM
#61
Your writing style is right up there with your reading comprehension.
If the fellow has receipts for all of the parts that have been installed in the car, and those receipts total $7700, he is well within the realm of asking a fair price for the car. If that isn't true, then it isn't. Notice the predicate.
You want to argue with that? Try. It's not going to work and what you've written is horribly naive; no one sells something for less than they paid for it unless they're desperate. If the car was taken from stock condition to, for example, make it into something the owner felt was an improvement on the original design, it becomes a very different story. Race builds fall into this category as do "funny" cars and hot rods. That doesn't appear to be the case here.
If you think you can buy a fully restored 924S for less than $16,800 be my guest. Find one and maybe we can have some sort of meaningful conversation. If your sole purpose is to demonstrate for ignorance you're doing a bang up job.
I said the receipts should be checked. If the guy has real receipts for real parts that are really in the car and he paid $7700 for those parts, and plans to sell the car for the price of parts alone, it's a good deal. It isn't hard.
If the fellow has receipts for all of the parts that have been installed in the car, and those receipts total $7700, he is well within the realm of asking a fair price for the car. If that isn't true, then it isn't. Notice the predicate.
You want to argue with that? Try. It's not going to work and what you've written is horribly naive; no one sells something for less than they paid for it unless they're desperate. If the car was taken from stock condition to, for example, make it into something the owner felt was an improvement on the original design, it becomes a very different story. Race builds fall into this category as do "funny" cars and hot rods. That doesn't appear to be the case here.
If you think you can buy a fully restored 924S for less than $16,800 be my guest. Find one and maybe we can have some sort of meaningful conversation. If your sole purpose is to demonstrate for ignorance you're doing a bang up job.
I said the receipts should be checked. If the guy has real receipts for real parts that are really in the car and he paid $7700 for those parts, and plans to sell the car for the price of parts alone, it's a good deal. It isn't hard.
I'm sure there is a 924S out there worth $16000 but it would basically have to be "off the factory line" condition. Which would cost an arm and a leg in parts, yet you're not going to pay that in the market.
Did IQ's drop sharply while I was out of the room? 
A well cared for 944 does go for $12,000, in fact I've recently seen well cared for 944s go as high as $22 to $27,000. A well cared for 951 will go from between $20 and $35K. I've seen 944 Cabriolets sell between $27 and $35K within the past year. Can you buy cheaper cars? Certainly. Will you get what you pay for? Maybe.
Your 968? You might find one for $15K if you wait long enough, most start around $18K and go up from there. Yes, they do sell in the $25K and above range depending on the level of restoration.
And that's about all the value they have. 911s are viciously tail-happy underpowered cars that tend towards front end lift-off, uncontrollable pedal off over-steer (an upbeat euphemism for spinning wildly out of control when you take your foot off the gas in a corner) and they look like squashed snails. The only thing that endears them to my generation is the fact we've all almost died in one at least once If you put enough power in a 911 you get a 930, which is a truly gorgeous car that will kill you in half the time.
To ignorance and arrogance I think we can safely add snobbery...
Priced a 914 lately?
A well cared for 944 does go for $12,000, in fact I've recently seen well cared for 944s go as high as $22 to $27,000. A well cared for 951 will go from between $20 and $35K. I've seen 944 Cabriolets sell between $27 and $35K within the past year. Can you buy cheaper cars? Certainly. Will you get what you pay for? Maybe.
Your 968? You might find one for $15K if you wait long enough, most start around $18K and go up from there. Yes, they do sell in the $25K and above range depending on the level of restoration.
And that's about all the value they have. 911s are viciously tail-happy underpowered cars that tend towards front end lift-off, uncontrollable pedal off over-steer (an upbeat euphemism for spinning wildly out of control when you take your foot off the gas in a corner) and they look like squashed snails. The only thing that endears them to my generation is the fact we've all almost died in one at least once
If you put enough power in a 911 you get a 930, which is a truly gorgeous car that will kill you in half the time.To ignorance and arrogance I think we can safely add snobbery...
Priced a 914 lately?
When I say "well cared" I mean your typical DD or weekend driver that is taken care of as issues arise and properly maintained.
I don't think I've EVER seen an NA 944 go for $27000. Maybe to an insane person. Or a turbo for $35000. It would have to have some sort of special value. Even the Rothman's 944s didn't go for $27000 IIRC.
Most 968s go for the $12000-$15000 range, but yes, VERY well taken care of, very low mileage examples will go for $25000. And really, really nice ones will command much higher, owing to its rarity and certain colour combos and options. The 924 and 944 are NOT rare at all. There is nothing too special about a fully restored 924 due to its less popular design and especially its commonality and the fact that anyone with enough time and a modest amount of money could restore one.
Squashed snails? Now I know you're out to lunch
The 914 is a COMPLETELY different beast. It has a design that shares commonality with typical Porsche designs. The 924 is 4 cylinder, water cooled, front engine design. It has very "80s" styling that just hasn't aged as well as other classic car designs in the eyes of the general public. I think values will rise as more and more 924s are junked, but the 914 will almost assuredly hold higher value.
05-02-2015, 01:10 AM
#62
Just as an example of a "well cared for" 951 that I'm talking about:
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...rlotte-nc.html
Will likely go for $8000, less than 50% of the price you said well cared for 951s will go for. And I would have absolutely zero concern about its upcoming maintenance. You're not going to be putting $5000-$10000 into this car in the first year, that's just an outrageous claim.
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...rlotte-nc.html
Will likely go for $8000, less than 50% of the price you said well cared for 951s will go for. And I would have absolutely zero concern about its upcoming maintenance. You're not going to be putting $5000-$10000 into this car in the first year, that's just an outrageous claim.
05-02-2015, 03:14 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
I concede the parts listed by the OP, which were an admittedly limited list vaguely described as part of "a stack" of receipts, do not represent $7700 in parts, hence my recommendation the receipts be checked. I suggested verifying the prices paid and that they were reasonable.
Your assertion that there is no 924S on the planet worth $7700 PERIOD (with the sole exception of historical vehicles and those of some further note left to the reader's imagination) is incorrect. Your criteria for making the determination is vague and I made some attempt to humorously point out your overstatements. Apparently I've failed.
Good luck in your travels.
05-02-2015, 03:49 PM
#66
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Otto,
the guys here know the cars, and market twenty six ways to Sunday.
you're human. just admit you were wrong and move on.
the guys here know the cars, and market twenty six ways to Sunday.
you're human. just admit you were wrong and move on.
05-02-2015, 04:19 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
05-02-2015, 04:30 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
Got ya. Here's advice; go out on your back lawn and cut a short piece of garden hose (say, 60 to 90 inches long, long enough to whack yourself on the head with).
Take this short section of garden hose and wrap it around your waist, right about the top of your hips. Lean as far forward as you can without injuring yourself, then start swinging the leftover end of the hose, the part that isn't wrapped around your hips.
Get your face good and close. Avoid screaming during the process. Trust me, this will be good for you.
05-02-2015, 04:37 PM
#69
So V, I believe we've smiled at each other enough now to get down to serious business shortly. Let's avoid that?
I concede the parts listed by the OP, which were an admittedly limited list vaguely described as part of "a stack" of receipts, do not represent $7700 in parts, hence my recommendation the receipts be checked. I suggested verifying the prices paid and that they were reasonable.
Your assertion that there is no 924S on the planet worth $7700 PERIOD (with the sole exception of historical vehicles and those of some further note left to the reader's imagination) is incorrect. Your criteria for making the determination is vague and I made some attempt to humorously point out your overstatements. Apparently I've failed.
Good luck in your travels.
I concede the parts listed by the OP, which were an admittedly limited list vaguely described as part of "a stack" of receipts, do not represent $7700 in parts, hence my recommendation the receipts be checked. I suggested verifying the prices paid and that they were reasonable.
Your assertion that there is no 924S on the planet worth $7700 PERIOD (with the sole exception of historical vehicles and those of some further note left to the reader's imagination) is incorrect. Your criteria for making the determination is vague and I made some attempt to humorously point out your overstatements. Apparently I've failed.
Good luck in your travels.
But what I said was that a 924S for $7700 isn't a good DEAL. Someone else already pointed here that they got a concours level 924S for $2500. THAT is a good deal. I would never pay $7700 for a 924S. Even if the guy had a stack of receipts showing all kinds of things being replaced, because the simple fact is you cannot guarantee reliability. The 50000 mile 924S I bought had a stack of receipts, a brand new clutch, brand new tires and brakes and I paid $4000. Put another $1000 for motor mounts, full t-belt job etc and it was good to go. And that was in the inflated Canadian market. Would probably get the same car for $4000 after repairs in the US.
05-02-2015, 04:39 PM
#70
Well Odie, I know them thirty six ways from Sunday.
Got ya. Here's advice; go out on your back lawn and cut a short piece of garden hose (say, 60 to 90 inches long, long enough to whack yourself in the head with).
Take this short section of garden hose and wrap it around you waist, right about the top of your hips. Lean as far forward as you can without injuring yourself, then start swinging the leftover end of the hose, the part that isn't wrapped around your hips.
Get your face good and close. Avoid screaming during the process. Trust me, this will be good for you.
Got ya. Here's advice; go out on your back lawn and cut a short piece of garden hose (say, 60 to 90 inches long, long enough to whack yourself in the head with).
Take this short section of garden hose and wrap it around you waist, right about the top of your hips. Lean as far forward as you can without injuring yourself, then start swinging the leftover end of the hose, the part that isn't wrapped around your hips.
Get your face good and close. Avoid screaming during the process. Trust me, this will be good for you.
05-02-2015, 04:57 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
That would be old Viking? "Wut"?
Two points for historical accuracy. What you likely don't understand in this interpretation is that Vikings had larger brains they inherited from earlier species that will go unnamed.
The correct contemporary spelling is "what" and as a question it requires a mark, "?", to express the question form.
Between you and I this is more or less over. Thanks for playing.
Two points for historical accuracy. What you likely don't understand in this interpretation is that Vikings had larger brains they inherited from earlier species that will go unnamed.
The correct contemporary spelling is "what" and as a question it requires a mark, "?", to express the question form.
Between you and I this is more or less over. Thanks for playing.
05-02-2015, 05:13 PM
#72
Rennlist Member
Just as an example of a "well cared for" 951 that I'm talking about:
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...rlotte-nc.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...rlotte-nc.html
We're pretty well done now V.
05-02-2015, 05:24 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
Much more important than a sitcom. It sets an expectation of value, sitcoms don't do that directly though they do make commentary on the subject. They are "thought leaders" for the vast majority.
There's the "what it is, is what is is!" crowd and the "what I want is what I want" crowd. There is a significant disconnect between these demographics. The Hamming distance between them characterizes. In the end it's in the understanding of value. On the edges of technology, that value will always be fluid.
There's the "what it is, is what is is!" crowd and the "what I want is what I want" crowd. There is a significant disconnect between these demographics. The Hamming distance between them characterizes. In the end it's in the understanding of value. On the edges of technology, that value will always be fluid.
05-02-2015, 05:35 PM
#74
Rennlist Member