Good buy or bad buy ?
04-30-2015, 02:14 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
04-30-2015, 04:49 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Pardon me for saying so but you're an idiot 
If the man has receipts for $7700 worth of parts, and those receipts are legitimate, and he is willing to show them to you, and you can verify their authenticity, $7700 is a good deal. This is very simple.
I paid $4000 for a 924 in 1987. It needed a new suspension, water pump, belts, brake pads and clutch, which I spent $3000 on in parts alone. I also had it up on blocks for six months performing repairs,
I don't care how much you bought your car for; parts cost what they cost and labor costs what you pay for it. It's simple.
Now, if you'd like to say the man paid too much for parts, go ahead. To say anything else is simply stupid.
If the man has receipts for $7700 worth of parts, and those receipts are legitimate, and he is willing to show them to you, and you can verify their authenticity, $7700 is a good deal. This is very simple.
I paid $4000 for a 924 in 1987. It needed a new suspension, water pump, belts, brake pads and clutch, which I spent $3000 on in parts alone. I also had it up on blocks for six months performing repairs,
I don't care how much you bought your car for; parts cost what they cost and labor costs what you pay for it. It's simple.
Now, if you'd like to say the man paid too much for parts, go ahead. To say anything else is simply stupid.
04-30-2015, 06:58 PM
#33
Pardon me for saying so but you're an idiot
If the man has receipts for $7700 worth of parts, and those receipts are legitimate, and he is willing to show them to you, and you can verify their authenticity, $7700 is a good deal. This is very simple.
I paid $4000 for a 924 in 1987. It needed a new suspension, water pump, belts, brake pads and clutch, which I spent $3000 on in parts alone. I also had it up on blocks for six months performing repairs,
I don't care how much you bought your car for; parts cost what they cost and labor costs what you pay for it. It's simple.
Now, if you'd like to say the man paid too much for parts, go ahead. To say anything else is simply stupid.
If the man has receipts for $7700 worth of parts, and those receipts are legitimate, and he is willing to show them to you, and you can verify their authenticity, $7700 is a good deal. This is very simple.
I paid $4000 for a 924 in 1987. It needed a new suspension, water pump, belts, brake pads and clutch, which I spent $3000 on in parts alone. I also had it up on blocks for six months performing repairs,
I don't care how much you bought your car for; parts cost what they cost and labor costs what you pay for it. It's simple.
Now, if you'd like to say the man paid too much for parts, go ahead. To say anything else is simply stupid.
"Is the topic creator a @&$#%? Then why you trying to @$&# him like one?!"
Seriously, I'm actually pissed off that you're trying to screw this guy out of $4000 and calling me an idiot in the process. Wow.
04-30-2015, 07:42 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
If no one will pay that for the car then that's it. To say the car is not worth $7700 when that's the amount of money put into parts that make it operational is pure idiocy. Can you find a car that doesn't have those parts for less money? Sure. Will it work? Sure. Does it have the same value? Not necessarily. Buy a Yugo. A Kia. Etc. Don't buy a Porsche if you don't perceive its value. To say one 924 is not worth $7700 because you can buy another 924 for less is in fact a stupid thing to say.
When you get something for nothing, it's certain someone else has gotten nothing for something. If you want to make yourself feel good about taking advantage of other people by claiming their work and goods aren't worth what they've put into it, go ahead. No one can stop you. Is it a losing proposition? Yes, it is. It's practically idiotic. It's unsustainable. I consider it stupid and self defeating.
You're going to roll snake eyes one day. It will happen. The arrogance and ignorance expressed by V996 (and yourself) is self-limiting and self evident.
Last edited by Otto Mechanic; 04-30-2015 at 08:15 PM.
04-30-2015, 08:08 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Well, the feeling is in fact mutual. The true difference between us is I'm both capable and qualified to restore a Porsche 924 all by myself.
Go find a Porsche 924 that requires the parts needed by the one in question. Replace those parts. What did it cost?
We are talking about two 924s now. Not a 1979 Toyota Celica and a 924. Two 924s.
At what point did you miss the boat here? If it cost the man $7700 to restore a 924, assuming he wasn't a profligate, spendthrift wastrel, that's what it cost. If you want it, that's what you're going to pay.
You can buy another car. Maybe it won't need the same work, but of course unless the work has already been done we should both know it will need to be done. You think you can do it for less? You think the OP can do it for less? Why? How?
Do you understand the cost of a genuine Porsche left handed balloon valve?
Go find a Porsche 924 that requires the parts needed by the one in question. Replace those parts. What did it cost?
We are talking about two 924s now. Not a 1979 Toyota Celica and a 924. Two 924s.
At what point did you miss the boat here? If it cost the man $7700 to restore a 924, assuming he wasn't a profligate, spendthrift wastrel, that's what it cost. If you want it, that's what you're going to pay.
You can buy another car. Maybe it won't need the same work, but of course unless the work has already been done we should both know it will need to be done. You think you can do it for less? You think the OP can do it for less? Why? How?
Do you understand the cost of a genuine Porsche left handed balloon valve?
Last edited by Otto Mechanic; 04-30-2015 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Curreucted Spieling
04-30-2015, 08:27 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
Cost != worth/value.
An insurance company will agree. Wreck your car and they don't care how much the car cost you over it's life, they will pay you market value (unless you have an agreed value policy).
An insurance company will agree. Wreck your car and they don't care how much the car cost you over it's life, they will pay you market value (unless you have an agreed value policy).
04-30-2015, 08:35 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
When I came to appreciate the Porsche marque it was during a time that the catchphrase "Excellence was Expected" characterized it. Over the course of 40 years I've come to believe that philosophy infuses the cars Porsche built between 1956 and 1995. You can't buy a bad car built during that time in my opinion. Perhaps the later cars are as good or maybe better, I don't know. I don't even know what a "996" is and I have no desire to find out.
Those days won't ever return. There may be better days ahead, but we know what we know, and it was excellent.
Those days won't ever return. There may be better days ahead, but we know what we know, and it was excellent.
Last edited by Otto Mechanic; 04-30-2015 at 09:21 PM.
04-30-2015, 08:38 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
If you don't have an agreed value policy on your cars, you aren't playing the game. Take a seat?
04-30-2015, 08:59 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
Alex & Odie, I'm tempted to trade barbs with you but I don't think that would be in the OP's best interest.
In summary, there is no fixed annual cost to maintaining a vintage sports car. The best you might do is calculate your total replacement cost in the event of a catastrophic failure, which would likely include a complete failure requiring the replacement of your engine or drive train (transmission). Anything in excess of that would result in a typical insurance company "totaling" the car. If you have an agreed value policy, that can be changed. If you are a collector you should very definitely negotiate an agreed value policy. If you aren't a collector, you should collect $200 and leave the game right now; no one in their right mind buys, restores and operates a 30 year old sports car unless they are a collector. Leave the room. Do Not Pass Go.
You can find the maintenance schedules for these cars on-line and you can get quotes from qualified local mechanics on those costs. What major system will fail next is anyone's guess.
In summary, there is no fixed annual cost to maintaining a vintage sports car. The best you might do is calculate your total replacement cost in the event of a catastrophic failure, which would likely include a complete failure requiring the replacement of your engine or drive train (transmission). Anything in excess of that would result in a typical insurance company "totaling" the car. If you have an agreed value policy, that can be changed. If you are a collector you should very definitely negotiate an agreed value policy. If you aren't a collector, you should collect $200 and leave the game right now; no one in their right mind buys, restores and operates a 30 year old sports car unless they are a collector. Leave the room. Do Not Pass Go.
You can find the maintenance schedules for these cars on-line and you can get quotes from qualified local mechanics on those costs. What major system will fail next is anyone's guess.
Last edited by Otto Mechanic; 04-30-2015 at 10:43 PM.
04-30-2015, 09:13 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Wait. Did I really say that?
Where's Einstein? He was right here!
04-30-2015, 09:20 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
The OP is talking about buying a car, hence cars that are for sale are worth market value (what someone is willing to pay for them). They are not worth the cost of the car to the owner (that would be the owner's value of the car to themselves).
According to your demented logic, all vehicles should be appreciating assets starting at the manufacturing cost of the vehicle and adding all costs over the lifetime of the vehicle to keep it running.
Here's a few simple steps you can take:
1. Go to www.google.com
2. Search for economics
3. Learn the definition of value and the definition of cost
4. Come back and share what you've learned
If you're still confused (it's obvious that happens easily), then please help the owner of the $8k 924S out and buy it because nobody else will.
According to your demented logic, all vehicles should be appreciating assets starting at the manufacturing cost of the vehicle and adding all costs over the lifetime of the vehicle to keep it running.
Here's a few simple steps you can take:
1. Go to www.google.com
2. Search for economics
3. Learn the definition of value and the definition of cost
4. Come back and share what you've learned
If you're still confused (it's obvious that happens easily), then please help the owner of the $8k 924S out and buy it because nobody else will.
04-30-2015, 09:39 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
I restore cars. The cost of parts is important. The amount of time I'm willing to spend installing those parts is important. It takes me time and also money, which comes from previously profitable activities I worked hard at, to both purchase the parts I can't make (with my $40,000 machine shop) and perform the labor needed to install them, so I can operate the car. In my example I'm only building the car to its original stock specification.
I value the car. The value is mine. Why? Well because it has a history and a heritage. It took 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place at Le Mans one year and I'd like to have the experience of driving a car very much (as close as I can get) to it at Laguna Seca sometime. Why? Because I ALWAYS thought Steve McQueen was really my long lost brother.
So put a value on that, then you and I can stop calling each other morons? Maybe we can do it over a cup of Kopi luwak while we're both dying of consumption?
Last edited by Otto Mechanic; 04-30-2015 at 10:49 PM.