Fronkenstein

Ok I am really bummed. Just did head, pump and belts on my 944S. This car sat in a closet for 3 years and we just resurrected it - well almost.

So we set the belts up just like the factory tells you to and we did the 135 degree "twist test" on the balance shaft belt and a 30 thousandths gap on the idler. Everything was looking great. Then after 3 years of not running - voila! a running 944S. We shut it down and did a recheck of the tension and all looked correct.

So we started it up to bring it up to temperature and bleed the cooling system and fine tune. It seems to have some cold start issues so we wanted to hunt them down.

Well after about 20 minutes of running we heard a horrible clunk and then silence. I went over and low and behold the balance shaft belt slipped of it's pulleys and jammed into the timing belt drive and stopped the engine.

We haven't pulled it apart yet, and frankly I am afraid to. I wonder if this has happened to anyone else out there and what was the cause and the outcome. My fear is that the timing belt slipped and now we have belt valves. I won't know for a day or so as the lift is currently occupied with a motor swap job.

Anyway I'd love to hear some happy thoughts if there are any to be had.

Pete

odonnell

Well... if the timing belt didn't skip any teeth, you're in luck!

Dougs951S

Unfortunately, it probably did. A broken balance belt on its own will not stop an engine, nor will a belt getting chewed up by the T belt drive. If the Timing belt is still intact it probably did skip, and the clunk you heard was valve contact.

Gawernator

:'(

william_b_noble

simple enough to check -= remove the balled up balance shaft belt, carefully rotate the crank (by hand) towards TDC on the S, you find the notch looking through the slot in the bottom of the bell housing) and see if the cam mark aligns correctly - if not, then bad news.

If you want to be super cautious, pull the valve cover and take out the cams, and see if all the lifter pop up all the way, if they do, reinstall correctly and you may be OK.

Fronkenstein

This totally sux. I will keep you posted. The real issue after we determine the damage is - why did it happen? WHY! why me :'( I guess I must have missed my sacrifice to the auto gods and they needed a victim :-\ Thanks everyone, stay tuned.

Pete

odurandina

the bi-annual OD RANT in 3.... 2.... 1.....


these cars are pretty good, and their rotten **** turd engines run well much of the time.

but not all of the time.

in my case, it's been a nickel and dime thing.....

$2,500, $1,200, $1,600, $900, $700, $825, $1,400, $1,580, $1,300, $840, $2,100 (clutch)..... nothing catastrophic,

I can't imagine driving anything else. i'm a full addict. but, I drive a rich man's car.


for perspective;

I drove 2 Ford Escapes and put almost 200 k miles doing the equivalent of the BAJA 1000 taking surfers on their dream vacations along the Sinaloa Drug Cartel's private ranch roads along the 40 mile stretch going north from the Tropic of Cancer (30~70 miles north of Mazatlan)....

55~60 mph off road... dozens of thousands of miles... and serious repairs? nothing. just 2 ***-kicking workhorses with the cats removed, and 2" lift..... more than 160 k miles on each vehicle repair free *only blown out alternators (due to endless dirt and mud) needing replacement.


but these engines....

this much trouble for 160~170 horsepower ?? JESUS.

for that money, I can spend a week in MEX surfing the best swell of the year.

might be once every 10 years. or could be 2 times in a single year or 3 times (roll the dice).

I DON'T GIVE A RATS *** IF IT CAN TURN 7,000 RPM -- for the frequency of major problems, and what it takes to fix one.

take your choice: it's either a rich man's engine or a very SLACK DESIGN.


tapping the roots of why 97% of all previous Porsche 944 owners are no longer 944 owners....

a labor of love, until you need the f_cking thing running.... there's a lot emotions riding when you have to do a $3,500 repair with scarred up knuckles but you have to be someplace else doing something else....

think about that for a moment.

think about how many hard-core posters/contributors from the last 5 years are GONE.

it because some better car came out ?

NO.... it's because the engines suck and NEVER got with the program STOCKING V8 PARTS.

i've stumbled once again upon a thread detailing the great paradox of the car that nearly everyone falls in love with -- but, almost no one still drives.... how many engines can you name that require the heads be taken off more often per 100 k miles THAN THESE RETARDED PORSCHE 944s ? isn't the real problem that we really haven't the $$$$ to fork over the cash to get the thing back on the road in 3 days???? really - cuz that's about when the **** hits the fan: you need your 944 running RIGHT NOW.

*I certainly know the feeling;

I got 3,500 miles going on my 968 this week (heading east on 80 in the Godforsaken wasteland of Pennsylvania as I write this crass dribble).....

but without having 911 Turbo money in the bank, i'm playing Russian roulette; praying the headgasket sealer/re-built H20 pump can take me about a dozen thousand miles more before the V8 goes in.....

not even worrying about the torque tube @190 k.... hell every mile the tt goes at this point is a bonus.


we know you wrench better than Ferry Porsche.... stop worshiping false gods and drop a working man's V8 motor in that thing.

YOUR TROUBLES WILL BE OVER.


in the meantime, I hope you catch a break.

od.


if anyone is still reading, I've had a very good ownership experience with this 968. i'm done about 170 long trips (with about 60 - 800 + miles) with only a few very minor interruptions *(failed AC pump caused a 2 day delay on Boston to Buffalo, New York trip.... clutch failed 15 miles from home on the return trip, but no two truck either time.... and finally, a failed H20 pump happened in the last 20 miles of Austin, TX to Daytona, FL). these issues were going to happen. and only the AC pump presented an unscheduled stay at a hotel.

exp951

I have a low miles 944S head and cams in perfect condition.

Voith

OD: These engines are bulletproof. They are not idiot proof however. Not many sport cars turn 500.000km on first engine.

Broken944: I hope your 944 is not broken.. I dont think the clunk was valve related, since when valves touch pistons there is no loud clunk, engine just dies. Possible scenario is that plastic on balancers broke loose. Check if both balancers turn normally..

Dougs951S

I agree Voith, and this is really aimed at OD, as much as I love your crass and generally truthful input most of the time. I think you are overstating the issues these engines have. I beat the everloving horse **** out of my 83, and it just never ever stopped ticking. I fully well expected it to, but that damn thing never missed a beat despite being driven like total ***. I drive my 951 2x as hard and it just keeps humming along. Proper PM is the key. A properly tensioned belt changed when its supposed to be, breaks no more often than the belt on any other random 4 cylinder like a honda does, which is to say that it happens but not too often. If people want a bulletproof 944 engine that they can "set and forget" for 100k+ miles, I've been working on a chain drive system. unfortunately its going to be rather cost prohibitive to sell. I would say overall, the 944 is a pretty damn reliable engine, just like every porsche motor.

In any case, back to the main issue here. I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the OP's balance belt was not properly tensioned.

odurandina

they are pretty good sometimes. but again, not all of the times. fatigued metal/old gaskets/parts being pushed hard..... i think some essence of bulletproofness is going on with these engines – but not entirely.... the costly timing belts/head gaskets/electrical gremlins and clutches that can't be replaced without dismantling half of the car presents an extreme challenge to most owners if more than one of these issues comes along within a short time – and you're using the car for required transportation.....

my AC delete and the clutch repairs last summer occurring on one trip to the Buffalo/Watkins Glen area, added up to almost $3,000.... $3,000 sitting in the bank ready to go into my engine swap–GONE. 8 k miles later and I was doing the belts/H20 pump/pullies etc again.... $1,400 more.

that's half the $$$ for my V8 engine !!

i'm sure we can call up a slew of owners who've posted in the last 10 years -- who did a very respectable amount of preventative care, but, have their cars no-longer.... i'm sure plenty of them would say the 944/968 certainly isn't a design that comes without a lot of warts to go along with a few extra hp *(compared to the competition from their respective eras).

Sydney developed an engine problem. poured a ton of money into it, only to have a related problem rear it's ugly head – and put him out for good... this car wasn't abused. just a semi daily 968.

https://rennlist.com/forums/968-foru...ews-today.html


the cost of running a 944 or 68 150 k miles – isn't far off from a V8 swap. but theres no easy answer.... i'm serious about stockpiling V8 parts – because when the oem engine fails, you're no longer facing such a huge bill to get the far-better v8 in there.... but, these cars ain't cheap to take down the road.

life demands a seriously dependable car. people can daily drive 25 year old 944s. I had a new 944 way back when. and it was just like driving a Honda Accord. but that was 20 years ago. I don't believe these engines have aged particularly well.... to do this now, requires a sizable commitment – and a backup beater.... if you have the means and want to stay in Porsche, a Cayenne/late 911/Boxster/Cayman is more doable these days.

.

Butters944

Is this a sign? Combined with your username of "Broken944"? Maybe its time for a motor swap...

All jokes aside, I hope its better than expected. Praying nothing is totally effed up, no matter how unlikely.

turbodave

Price of Porsche tensioning tool #9201/2: About $500 new

Price of a valve job on a M44.40 head: I'll let you do the math

ZR8ED

I hope OD is mostly wrong, or at least partially wrong as I have had my current 944 as a daily driver for almost 2 years, and have put on just about 70,000 km's on it during that time. I don't have a backup car anymore (It was also a 944), but I am pretty handy, and have a good mechanic near work that really helps with emergencies..like when I hit something on the highway, and had a puddle of coolant under the car when I went to go home. Because I DD the car, I don't have much choice and am forced to spend $$$ to keep it running if something can't wait for me to fix it myself, but so far, I am spending way less than car payments on even the cheapest crapcan available.
Good luck with the repairs.

bonus12

That CLUNK could have been from the entire engine stopping all at once, but I'm having a hard time imagining how a jammed BS belt could stop a whole engine suddenly.

Expect the best
Prepare for the worst
Fix it and get it over with
Or walk away a lucky man and forget it ever happened

Best of luck!