Robby

I know this topic has come up before, but people are always trying new things, and it's possible that some of you out there have experimented w/different brake parts, etc...

I'm about to replace ALL rotors, pads, lines, fluid, and bias valve on my Turbo S. I'm going w/cast drilled Zimmermans all around, and a 928 bias valve. I could really use some advice on the rest. I'm planning to use ATE fluid, but there are two different types- Blue and Gold- which one should I use (if either)? What type of SS lines should I use? Some people say not to use them at all(?). And, most importantly- brake pads. Some people have recommended Mintex Silvers- does such a pad exist? I can't find any info on them anywhere... I want a slightly more aggressive pad than stock, no squealing, minimal rotor wear and minimal mess... I want a nice comprimise- something that grabs well but doesn't destroy everything... Also, price is a concern- I can't see paying $300+ for pads...

Any input would be appreciated, as well as any advice on where to buy specific parts from...

Thanks a lot,
Robby

Riff

First things:

Fluids: ATE Blue and Gold are the same fluid, just different colors. Makes bleeding out old fluid easy as you know it is out once the color changes.

SS lines: Dunno don't have them, but my car is primarily street use.

Brake Pads: I use Axxiss (Repco) Metal Masters. Very good street pad, very little dusting, no squeeling, good bite, and rotor friendly. Best thing is that they are CHEAP! as in ~$35 per axle. These last a good while unless they are tracked as I have burned through a set over 2 track days.

All the above can be purchased from Jason @ Paragon. No financial interest, just a very satisfied customer.

HTH

Michael Stephenson

SS Lines: I have the SS lines from Paragon. I really like them because they have a plastic coating over the SS braid. However, the fronts lines did not come with the rubber grommet that holds them onto the strut - you will need to somehow remove them from the existing lines. I noticed a slightly firmer pedal.

Why go with SS lines? Because they do not expand as much as the rubber lines when you are applying the brakes. They will also not rupture like an old rubber line sometimes does. I think that the reason some do not recommend SS lines is that some lines may not have the plastic coating, making the lines more susceptible to damage from rocks and debris - but that is just a guess.

Bias Valve: I put the 928 bias valve in my car and I love it. The car does not nose dive as much as it used to - it feels more like the car squats when under hard braking. However, it was not an easy replacement. On ABS equipped cars, the valve is located in the passenger side wheel well. You will have to remove the plastic wheel well lining to get to it. You will also need to exhibit a good deal of patience when removing and installing the valve - there is not much room to maneuver a wrench.

ATE Fluid: I alternate between the Blue and Gold - it makes it easier to know when the system has been flushed. Since I do a few DE's a year, I have to change the fluid every 6 months according to PCA rules.

Speed Bleeders: One thing that you have not mentioned is Speed Bleeders - these puppies are invaluable when bleeding brakes by yourself. You will need a total of eight (two per brake) and you can get them from Paragon as well. They also make one for the clutch as well.

TomH

Tip: order 6 rotors, and use the four that are not already warped, and send the other two back for a refund. I hear far too many stories of people ordering rotors over the web and they arriving already warped. Good luck

ian

I'll throw in a vote for Hawk HPS (high performance street) pads, I put them on my car and I have noticed a marked improvement. The grab much better and do not show as much fade. I have had no problem with squeeling, and although there is a little more brake dust, it still is not that bad.

Why are you going with the drilled rotors? They are a lot more expensive than the alternative and from my experience (and also from my many conversations about this topic with many racers) I have come to the conclusion that the benifits don't out weigh the costs. Unless you just love the look of the drilled rotors (they do look better) just go with the non-drilled, non-slotted rotors.

Also to echo some of the others, SS lines and ATE Blue / Gold are a great combo.

Good luck witht the brake upgrade

Wachuko

Michael, can you elaborate more on the Bias Valve subject? What is the purpose of it? Part number? How many?

I have replaced the brake lines with SS lines, ATE Blue, new rotors, new pads... but I am not satisfied with the brake performance. On hard braking situations I can fell fading and sometimes scares the heck out of me thinking I will not be able to stop on time… BTW my car has no ABS.

I will change the brake pads (OEM at this moment) to the recommended in this post, maybe that will improve the brakes somewhat...

Thanks!

Michael Stephenson

Here is the page from Paragon about the Brake Limiting valve.
Paragon Products Brake Bias Valve

Also checkout this page from the 944 FAQ about brake limiting valves. Go to section 14.5. There is a very good write-up on Brake Bias proportioning.
944 FAQ - Modifications

I think that the valve on non-ABS cars is on the brake reservoir, but I am not sure.

I have heard of a valve that gives even more bias to the rear, but I do not know where to get it. Also, some people have an adjustable valve, which I also do not know where to get.

The one thing that you want to avoid, especially in a non-ABS car is rear wheel lock-up - it can cause the car to spin.

Tabor

Jaime, It may be time that you rebuild your calipers/purchase new ones.

eugene

Highly recommend Metal Master(Axxis) pads
for your application.

928 Bias valve(5/33 Bar)
Porsche part # 928.355.305.02
You will see 5/33 engraved on the bias valve.

BTW, stock 951/S Bias Valve is a 5/18 bar unit(951.355.305.01)

5/33 bar allows more pressure to the rear calipers.

These items are all available from Paragon Products.

Enjoy.