BlackOp

True...because newer vettes are hideous. They look like they were designed by a manager at Hooters.. there is something cheap/fast/ugly about them..like a hooker.

Paulyy

I'm loving what people have to say about this topic!

Cole, Function doesn't mean just power, Function is handling also where that is just a lot better then a corvette.

My car from the outside looks 95% stock, minus the twin exhaust and the front mount intercooler it looks stock.
What is under the skin is a different story. When i go car meets, my car doesn't pull much attention because really it looks stock and everyone there loves there stanced out homo cars. How ever, when i open my bonnet (hood) there is all of a sudden a que to see what is happening under there.


I should have put your name as one of the options.. one of the only cars that looks as quick as it is

Dubai944

I like Form, but Function absolutely comes first. I spent three years with the crapiest looking car on the GT grid in Dubai to the point that I was the butt of a lot of jokes, but 14 podium finishes out of 22 starts...who cares.

Cole

I didn't mention "just power" for the dollars spent on these cars you can easily buy/build a corvette that handles as well/better.

Want proof? Just look at where a stock Corvette gets classed in many race organizations compared to a 944/951 stock.

We may not appreciate the way they look, etc etc etc. But if you want to argue pure bang for the buck function the corvette wins in this case.


Edit:

Just did a quick search and for the $10-12k range (price of a decently sorted but mostly stock 951) you can consistently find 2000 model year Corvettes.

These are the rear transmission set up like the 944/951.

Weight slightly more but put out a notable amount more power, have stability controls, more features, much easier to put on a diet, add power, add handling bits, huge tire choices, magnesium wheels, fiberglass bodies, 6 speed gear boxes, etc etc.


The whole point being that if any of us were 100% function only we would have moved on from the now classic 944 chassis. The Corvettes is just one easy example among many. Miatas will eat 944s on a track for the money spent!

ZR8ED

Forget Corvette. Can you say "CAN AM" No holds barred racecars

Ultimately you are correct though. We all are making compromises. Just like we aren't driving prius' to get better gas mileage. 944's are pretty decent, but no where close to modern cars.

For me, I'm mostly a function guy. I don't have a track car anymore so I am getting more mellow, and consider the form just as much as function now.

Race cars have rules for function, street and DE cars, not so much once you own them...You can pretty much mod them all you want...

yorkee

hmmm… a wheel center cap serve no purpose at all in terms of function, but I will clean and polish it and make sure it match the color on the wheel.

However, I will rather spend my $500 on a new water pump + belt than fixing the rotted seat and crack dash.

hack, I will spend that $500 replacing my already good tires with better one before fixing the rotted seat and crack dash.

That said, I spent 10+ hours cleaning the rotten padding on the hood, that served no purpose at all.

I guess I am a 40% form, 60% function guy….

Dubai944

Of course you are assuming we all live in the US of A where Corvettes, of any vintage, are priced in the same stratosphere as the 944.... Not so elsewhere. And I've seen some pretty developed Miatas, including a V8 version and none of them were quicker than my 944 on a track...maybe they didn't spend enough money??

67King

I'm not sure why you think a $10K Corvette will be a superior car to a $10K 944. Fact is, $10K will buy you a bone stock base Corvette that will need a whole lot of suspension work to hang with a 944 that has had $10K put in it. And the transmission is not the same. It has a conventional transmission with a differential bolted onto the back of it. Separate pieces, separate oil sumps. Yes it is at the rear, but it is bigger, heavier, and forces the car to get bigger.

The Corvette is heavier, it has a longer wheelbase, requires a whole lot more tire. And I'll explain it like I did to my friends at Ford (where I used to work). I can buy a Turbo S, and I already have 4 piston calipers, an LSD, an adjustable suspension, bearing jointts on the intermediate shaft (as opposed to a rubberpuck), and a properly designed and baffled oil pan. A $10K Corvette buys you none of that. You're going to have to spend another $10K on it just to get it up the same level as a Turbo S.

BobSantos

Don't forget that if you take your C6 on a mountain road with any sort of dips on it and you might spend more time scraping the nose than not.

We would travel on road-trips with a buddy who has one and we'd literally have to get out and wait at the end of one particularly twisty/wavy section (which was a ton of fun for us) for him to catch up as he was afraid of ripping his car's lower valance off.

That car is currently valued at somewhere around $25K. Would be interesting to see what a $10K Corvette handles like.

Not to say that the C6 is a bad car - it is very different from the 944 in many ways, as stated above. It's great at doing effortless speed and has pretty great handling for a road car.

Cole

Because I've raced and taught performance driving for over 25 years and have a ton of seat time in both.



Um...no. $10k will buy you a reasonably well running 951. Or a $5k one that needs brought up to spec before running on a track. For the SAME amount of money you can get the GM product that is 15 years newer!!


Who said it was the same as a 944? Do you read this stuff or just make up what you want to reply to? I said its in the same location. Thus providing the same weight distribution benefits. Fwiw, its the same basic design as a 928 with the separate diff and transmission. Which in the case of functions or the Corvette gives a much broader option for gears and durability. How many custom gear choices and differential ratios are there for the 944? The Corvette? Simply no contest!

Heavier, but lower center of gravity! Which gets even better with simple changes.

You obviously haven't spent enough track time with either if you think the 944s oil pan if properly baffled compared to the corvette. I've personally killed several 944 lower ends from corner induced oil starvation.

Finding a 15 year newer base Corvette is easier than finding a well sorted Turbo S!

I love my 951 and wouldn't trade it for a Corvette ever, but shear function for the dollar can't be compared. We have all chosen some level of form over function by choosing a CLASSIC car!

Cole

By the way, this isn't meant to be a corvette vs Porsche discussion. It was simply an example to show that we have ALL picked the form we prefer over pure function.


Not sure what your buddy did to his Corvette to make it so bad on dips. We have Corvettes join out Porsche group on drives frequently and they do no better or worse on dips than the Porsches.

67King

Well I suppose since I haven't been doing this for 25 years, the one advantge I have is that I've been looking at and buying stuff more recently. $10K would have bought a reasonably well running 951 over 10 years ago. NOwadays, $10K will buy you a whole lot more. For example, my 968 was well under $10K, and came with a full KW Variant 3 coil over kit, M030 bars, harness bar, Hawk race pads, etc. And agian, the $10K Corvette lacks 4 piston calipers, LSD, adjustable suspension, and any kind of oil pan baffle - not saying the 951 is perfect, but it is better than nothing. I'm actually going through my engine right now - http://s569.photobucket.com/albums/s...ile%20uploads/ (look at the filenames - dated 2/10/2013......)

Besides, the Vette is bigger, heavier, less fun to drive, and harder to drive. I've driven heavy cars, and I've driven light cars on the track. You may like big power in a big heavy car, I prefer the lighter cars. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I'm not knocking Vettes, I love them. Engineering marvel that very few companies could pull off (at the price point). I'm merely disagreeing with you that the 951 is form over function compared to a Vette.

Cole

That's nifty that you got a deal. Its certainly not the norm to buy one of these TOTALLY caught up on its maintenance for less than $10k. And as I pointed above, sure, you can buy one for less but its not usually track worthy at that point.

You are way too caught up on some things like 2-vs-4 piston calipers. So much more to effective brakes than the number of pistons. Hell, plenty of guys having fun track time on stock 944 calipers. The vette calipers work, well. Most of us are still using the stock 955/51 stuff which is tiny by comparison!

Very few 944/951 have an LSD in them and most don't work right at this age. LSD transmission are big money and adding an LSD is ludacris money in a 944. Seriously, go buy a Corvette as a second car type of money.

The stock vette is 300lbs heavier. Not thousands of lbs like you make it sound. That weight is carried lower in the chassis than the 944, which is better! It's also super easy to loose that 300lbs compared to the 944.



Love my 951! But it's a frigging CLASSIC CAR at this point. You are so missing the point If "function" was more important than "form" we all would have picked another chassis. The 944 is good, but its not "the most functional" when you free your mind to any form.

Cole

Form? function? Both!!

Dubai944

Cole, I think you are the one missing the point of the original discussion and have turned a question about people's general motivations and attitudes towards cars into a discussion about "how" functional a 944 is compared to other cars. That's such a blanket statement "that we all would have picked another chassis". Not everyone has the same perspective or circumstances and it's simply not true!

No one said the 944 was "the most functional" car out there. Of course there are more purely functional cars than a 944... there are also a lot more purely functional cars than Ariel Atoms as well. I've raced plenty of open wheelers which are much more functionally focused. You can own a 944 for all sorts of reasons but still consider function more important than form.