Give me a quick 101 class on the early 944
02-07-2013, 11:31 AM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Give me a quick 101 class on the early 944
Since I have a low mileage S2 cabrio that I pamper, I've been getting an itch for a hatch to drive on the spring/summer/fall days whens it's rainy or during winter when I get that itch (while the Cab hibernates). Or just an excuse to add one more Porsche to the stable LOL.
I know the S2 fairly well, so was wondering what differences do I need to pay extra attention to in say a 1984?
Ex. Does the clutch take as long to replace as it does in a S2? Any issues specific to the early 944?
Thanks,
Dino
I know the S2 fairly well, so was wondering what differences do I need to pay extra attention to in say a 1984?
Ex. Does the clutch take as long to replace as it does in a S2? Any issues specific to the early 944?
Thanks,
Dino
02-07-2013, 11:42 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
The interiors are different, and the suspension control arms are aluminum. Those are the major differences. A clutch job on a 944 is still a clutch job on a 944 - no difference there.
There are lots of other little differences - header panel isn't removable, windshield isn't flush, rain gutters are different, wheel offset is different, speedometer drive is mechanical off the front left wheel, gas tank is metal and smaller, transmission mount is different, sunroof drive mechanism is a little different. But I wouldn't say that any of those "need extra attention". the same rules apply: buy the best example you can afford with a fully documented history.
There are lots of other little differences - header panel isn't removable, windshield isn't flush, rain gutters are different, wheel offset is different, speedometer drive is mechanical off the front left wheel, gas tank is metal and smaller, transmission mount is different, sunroof drive mechanism is a little different. But I wouldn't say that any of those "need extra attention". the same rules apply: buy the best example you can afford with a fully documented history.
02-07-2013, 11:49 AM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
The interiors are different, and the suspension control arms are aluminum. Those are the major differences. A clutch job on a 944 is still a clutch job on a 944 - no difference there.
There are lots of other little differences - header panel isn't removable, windshield isn't flush, rain gutters are different, wheel offset is different, speedometer drive is mechanical off the front left wheel, gas tank is metal and smaller, transmission mount is different, sunroof drive mechanism is a little different. But I wouldn't say that any of those "need extra attention". the same rules apply: buy the best example you can afford with a fully documented history.
There are lots of other little differences - header panel isn't removable, windshield isn't flush, rain gutters are different, wheel offset is different, speedometer drive is mechanical off the front left wheel, gas tank is metal and smaller, transmission mount is different, sunroof drive mechanism is a little different. But I wouldn't say that any of those "need extra attention". the same rules apply: buy the best example you can afford with a fully documented history.
I would assume that means ball joints are easier to do lol.
Good to know on the metal gas tank
Exactly, it just seems like all the better examples over here happen to be '84s LOL!
02-07-2013, 11:51 AM
#4
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
they are lighter and cheaper on most consumable parts.
transmission mount is superior on the early cars, you can jack the car up by the transmission if needed. tank is supposed to be 17gallon but ive never filled more than 15. suspension arms are all steel on early cars, new a-arm + ball joint is about $40 total.
transmission mount is superior on the early cars, you can jack the car up by the transmission if needed. tank is supposed to be 17gallon but ive never filled more than 15. suspension arms are all steel on early cars, new a-arm + ball joint is about $40 total.
02-07-2013, 11:53 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Here's a breakdown off the top of my head:
For Pre 1985.5 cars:
For Pre 1985.5 cars:
- Had a different dash layout, door panels and center console.
- The older the car, the greater the concern for rear hatch glass delamination.
- No ABS (IIRC not available until 1987)
- OEM was rubber centered clutch, but very likely replaced by now.
- Steel front control arms have replaceable ball joints, but the steel needs reinforcing for track duty.
- Speedo pickup is on front wheel (after 85.5 moved to tranny pickup).
- Nose panel between headlights is spot welded (after 85.5 was bolted).
- Check for corrosion/repairs of battery tray, caused by leakage or poor/disconnected battery venting.
- Earliest '83's often have desirable manual steering rack. Later cars hit or miss, but most had power steering.
- Earlier cars had manual rear hatch release cable via the key. Later models used electric solenoid, and remote switch in driver footwell.
- CORRECTED: Pre '85 cars had computer under the driver side dash.Very easy to get to. And less prone to battery tray corrosion issues.
Last edited by aj986s; 02-07-2013 at 02:33 PM. Reason: Got edumacated on CPU location.
02-07-2013, 12:14 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
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'84 was one of the top years as far as sales were concerned, so naturally, there are more of those available.
My suggestion would be to find one that is as un-molested as possible. Being a rather inexpensive car for some years, many have fallen into the hands of owners that feel they have better engineering skills than Porsche had that the time. I was lucky in that mine lived a sheltered life and was well cared for by it's owners, so when I did need to investigate a problem, everything was as described in the factory service manual (and more importantly electrical schematic)
If there is a weak link, I'd say it's the electrical system. When the cars were originally conceived and developed in the mid 70's, power windows, and AC were not the norm in cars of this type. Switch and wire capacity was barely adequate at the time, and after 30 years, a bit of corrosion and oxidation can really start to affect things and gremlins show up.
My suggestion would be to find one that is as un-molested as possible. Being a rather inexpensive car for some years, many have fallen into the hands of owners that feel they have better engineering skills than Porsche had that the time. I was lucky in that mine lived a sheltered life and was well cared for by it's owners, so when I did need to investigate a problem, everything was as described in the factory service manual (and more importantly electrical schematic)
If there is a weak link, I'd say it's the electrical system. When the cars were originally conceived and developed in the mid 70's, power windows, and AC were not the norm in cars of this type. Switch and wire capacity was barely adequate at the time, and after 30 years, a bit of corrosion and oxidation can really start to affect things and gremlins show up.
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02-07-2013, 12:26 PM
#8
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Here's a breakdown off the top of my head:
For Pre 1985.5 cars:
For Pre 1985.5 cars:
- Had a different dash layout, door panels and center console.
- The older the car, the greater the concern for rear hatch glass delamination.
- No ABS (IIRC not available until 1987)
- OEM was rubber centered clutch, but very likely replaced by now.
- Steel front control arms have replaceable ball joints, but the steel needs reinforcing for track duty.
- Speedo pickup is on front wheel (after 85.5 moved to tranny pickup).
- Nose panel between headlights is spot welded (after 85.5 was bolted).
- Check for corrosion/repairs of battery tray, caused by leakage or poor/disconnected battery venting.
- Earliest '83's often have desirable manual steering rack. Later cars hit or miss, but most had power steering.
- Earlier cars had manual rear hatch release cable via the key. Later models used electric solenoid, and remote switch in driver footwell.
- I'm not 100% certain, but I believe earlier cars computer box, in passenger footwell, was more vulnerable to battery tray leakage.
Pre 85.5 Cars are lighter. (No airbags, ABS)
Pre 85.5 Cars have the infeiorior style of LSD)Prone to spider gear catast rophic malfunction) A Somewhat Common 2nd gear Synchro problem that causes sticking.
02-07-2013, 12:58 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
they are lighter and cheaper on most consumable parts.
transmission mount is superior on the early cars, you can jack the car up by the transmission if needed. tank is supposed to be 17gallon but ive never filled more than 15. suspension arms are all steel on early cars, new a-arm + ball joint is about $40 total.
transmission mount is superior on the early cars, you can jack the car up by the transmission if needed. tank is supposed to be 17gallon but ive never filled more than 15. suspension arms are all steel on early cars, new a-arm + ball joint is about $40 total.
Here's a breakdown off the top of my head:
For Pre 1985.5 cars:
For Pre 1985.5 cars:
- Had a different dash layout, door panels and center console.
- The older the car, the greater the concern for rear hatch glass delamination.
- No ABS (IIRC not available until 1987)
- OEM was rubber centered clutch, but very likely replaced by now.
- Steel front control arms have replaceable ball joints, but the steel needs reinforcing for track duty.
- Speedo pickup is on front wheel (after 85.5 moved to tranny pickup).
- Nose panel between headlights is spot welded (after 85.5 was bolted).
- Check for corrosion/repairs of battery tray, caused by leakage or poor/disconnected battery venting.
- Earliest '83's often have desirable manual steering rack. Later cars hit or miss, but most had power steering.
- Earlier cars had manual rear hatch release cable via the key. Later models used electric solenoid, and remote switch in driver footwell.
- I'm not 100% certain, but I believe earlier cars computer box, in passenger footwell, was more vulnerable to battery tray leakage.
'84 was one of the top years as far as sales were concerned, so naturally, there are more of those available.
My suggestion would be to find one that is as un-molested as possible. Being a rather inexpensive car for some years, many have fallen into the hands of owners that feel they have better engineering skills than Porsche had that the time. I was lucky in that mine lived a sheltered life and was well cared for by it's owners, so when I did need to investigate a problem, everything was as described in the factory service manual (and more importantly electrical schematic)
If there is a weak link, I'd say it's the electrical system. When the cars were originally conceived and developed in the mid 70's, power windows, and AC were not the norm in cars of this type. Switch and wire capacity was barely adequate at the time, and after 30 years, a bit of corrosion and oxidation can really start to affect things and gremlins show up.
My suggestion would be to find one that is as un-molested as possible. Being a rather inexpensive car for some years, many have fallen into the hands of owners that feel they have better engineering skills than Porsche had that the time. I was lucky in that mine lived a sheltered life and was well cared for by it's owners, so when I did need to investigate a problem, everything was as described in the factory service manual (and more importantly electrical schematic)
If there is a weak link, I'd say it's the electrical system. When the cars were originally conceived and developed in the mid 70's, power windows, and AC were not the norm in cars of this type. Switch and wire capacity was barely adequate at the time, and after 30 years, a bit of corrosion and oxidation can really start to affect things and gremlins show up.
Post 85.5 cars had the DME in the passanger side footwell, Pre 85.5 cars the DME was under the steering wheel drivers side(No Chance for Corrosion, had a better casing than the late model DME).
Pre 85.5 Cars are lighter. (No airbags, ABS)
Pre 85.5 Cars have the infeiorior style of LSD)Prone to spider gear catast rophic malfunction) A Somewhat Common 2nd gear Synchro problem that causes sticking.
Pre 85.5 Cars are lighter. (No airbags, ABS)
Pre 85.5 Cars have the infeiorior style of LSD)Prone to spider gear catast rophic malfunction) A Somewhat Common 2nd gear Synchro problem that causes sticking.
The one I am looking at has 104k miles with maintenance records. Water pump and t-belt done at 60k miles, so that would probably be first order of business if I were to buy. Also has receipt for clutch replacement but no miles at when it was done on receipt. I like also the fact that its driven and not sitting.
02-07-2013, 07:33 PM
#10
Today I got
My Custom Title
Rennlist Member
My Custom Title
Rennlist Member
Can somebody just organize/compile a large single list of early/late differences and post it somewhere, so everybody can just reference the "facts post" rather than typing out and explaining everytime somebody asks? 
To the OP: I think you'll find early cars are a lot of "raw fun".
To the OP: I think you'll find early cars are a lot of "raw fun".
02-07-2013, 08:54 PM
#11
Proprietoristicly Refined
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
'84 was one of the top years as far as sales were concerned, so naturally, there are more of those available.
My suggestion would be to find one that is as un-molested as possible. Being a rather inexpensive car for some years, many have fallen into the hands of owners that feel they have better engineering skills than Porsche had that the time. I was lucky in that mine lived a sheltered life and was well cared for by it's owners, so when I did need to investigate a problem, everything was as described in the factory service manual (and more importantly electrical schematic)
If there is a weak link, I'd say it's the electrical system. When the cars were originally conceived and developed in the mid 70's, power windows, and AC were not the norm in cars of this type. Switch and wire capacity was barely adequate at the time, and after 30 years, a bit of corrosion and oxidation can really start to affect things and gremlins show up.
My suggestion would be to find one that is as un-molested as possible. Being a rather inexpensive car for some years, many have fallen into the hands of owners that feel they have better engineering skills than Porsche had that the time. I was lucky in that mine lived a sheltered life and was well cared for by it's owners, so when I did need to investigate a problem, everything was as described in the factory service manual (and more importantly electrical schematic)
If there is a weak link, I'd say it's the electrical system. When the cars were originally conceived and developed in the mid 70's, power windows, and AC were not the norm in cars of this type. Switch and wire capacity was barely adequate at the time, and after 30 years, a bit of corrosion and oxidation can really start to affect things and gremlins show up.
J_AZ
.
02-07-2013, 09:08 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
02-07-2013, 09:12 PM
#13
Yes raw fun is pretty accurate. I love the feeling of my maual rack 83's and the overall simplicity of the car. I get more of a feeling that I am driving a vintage classic sports car.
