Notices
924/931/944/951/968 Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

944 oil pick-up tube "collar"

 
Old 04-02-2012, 07:40 AM
  #16  
xsboost90
Now Cool
Rennlist Member
 
xsboost90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: cincinnati,OH
Posts: 15,215
Default

i guess the trap door allows it to easily run towards the sump but not away.
xsboost90 is offline  
Old 04-02-2012, 03:18 PM
  #17  
f1rocks
User
 
f1rocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brentwood, TN
Posts: 1,896
Default

Would strongly suggest that you reinforce the oil pickup tube as well.

Lost an engine at Gingerman when it broke.
f1rocks is offline  
Old 04-22-2017, 12:19 PM
  #18  
Voith
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Voith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 6,405
Default

From other thread:

Originally Posted by Noahs944 View Post
hahaha... okay.

All I see is screen, something meant to keep the naughty bits out of a suction device. if the whole pickup tube was a mesh material, would it work well or work it not provide vacuum?

-Anyway, maybe it doesn't matter, maybe I'm wrong You build your engine in the way that pleases YOU. You do beautiful work with exceptional detail. I just realized 951and944S has basically the same argument as I do, didn't mean to rant, just thought I might be able to make a difference, but it's already been said.

Hope you have a great weekend. Lets hope we all keep our cars rubber side down.

AND BACK TO OUR REGULAR PROGRAM.
Picture is worth more than words

First picture is properly mounted band (from google images) and second is mine and what I'm trying to say. The pickup is lower than the band so what's the point? What does one acomplish with closing off 30%+ of mesh screen?







Voith is offline  
Old 04-22-2017, 12:44 PM
  #19  
CrookedRacer
User
 
CrookedRacer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 193
Default

Pics of mine that I just had done by a welding place in Gaithersburg, MD











and the pan:




CrookedRacer is offline  
Old 04-29-2017, 08:06 PM
  #20  
Voith
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Voith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 6,405
Default

So what's the point of the band?
Voith is offline  
Old 04-30-2017, 01:02 PM
  #21  
Fast82930
User
 
Fast82930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 173
Default

The band forces oil pickup lower in the pan and prevents sucking from sides.

For track cars you want the trap door, a windage tray, oil pickup tube support brace and crank scrapper.
Fast82930 is offline  
Old 04-30-2017, 04:13 PM
  #22  
Voith
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Voith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 6,405
Default

This is getting ridiculous. HOW CAN IT SUCK FROM THE SIDE??

The pickup is already LOWER than that band.
Voith is offline  
Old 04-30-2017, 05:17 PM
  #23  
T&T Racing
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
T&T Racing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New York & Indiana
Posts: 744
Default

Originally Posted by Voith View Post
This is getting ridiculous. HOW CAN IT SUCK FROM THE SIDE??

The pickup is already LOWER than that band.
The ring prevents oil and air mixture, air entrainment in the sump oil, from entry in the oil pickup tube because the available screen surface is substantial below the oil surface is a high G right hand corner. At the intersurface between the oil in the sump and the oil in suspension above the sump, are oil molecules containing air, thus froth created by the rotating crank impacting the dropping oil molecules from the cavity of the engine into the interstitial space for the crank. These droplets of oil and air land on top of the oil sump surface and it takes time for the oil to release the entrained air. The ring provides the buffer for the time it takes for entrained air to be released and thus the oil in the pickup tube is all oil molecules with no entrained air. The ring is not needed street car.
T&T Racing is online now  
Old 04-30-2017, 05:55 PM
  #24  
Voith
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Voith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 6,405
Default

No it does not prevent air and oil mixture, it can't do that. If anything ring first traps air bubble when oil is filled which is then sucked in after initial startup and from then on it does nothing at all. In case when tube is bent and lower than it should be it can only become a restriction because circumference in later oil pans.

The best possible pickup would be just tube with venturi on the end but because crude mesh filter is needed it is added by the factory in shape of mushroom to maximize surface of the filter.

What this band does is just minimising surface of this filter and absolutely nothing more.

Available screen surface has nothing to do with pickup itself. you can extend screen surface to periscope like tower out of the car and it wont affect pickup point the slightest bit.
Voith is offline  
Old 04-30-2017, 07:03 PM
  #25  
951and944S
Super User
 
951and944S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Orleans/Baton Rouge
Posts: 3,526
Default

Originally Posted by Voith View Post
No it does not prevent air and oil mixture, it can't do that. If anything ring first traps air bubble when oil is filled which is then sucked in after initial startup and from then on it does nothing at all. In case when tube is bent and lower than it should be it can only become a restriction because circumference in later oil pans.

The best possible pickup would be just tube with venturi on the end but because crude mesh filter is needed it is added by the factory in shape of mushroom to maximize surface of the filter.

What this band does is just minimising surface of this filter and absolutely nothing more.

Available screen surface has nothing to do with pickup itself. you can extend screen surface to periscope like tower out of the car and it wont affect pickup point the slightest bit.
Dude, I really really thought you were kidding or just being obtuse in the other thread.

Once and for all, either do this physically or try to just imagine the result.

Take a container of oil about an inch deep, shallower than the side depth measurement of the pickup end's side mesh as it sits bottomed in the container..

Make an adapter, using a handheld vacuum pump, try to pull oil up the tube.

Not gonna happen, you will only suck air because it is lighter and less viscous than the oil.

Now ring skirt the pickup as you have been shown 100+ times.

Same experiment, bottom of mesh resting on bottom of container, only now there is no side mesh open to atmosphere.......you will get oil, not air pulling up the tube towards the vacuum source.

Do you get it.....?

Are you gonna drop this now.?

Go google any "high performance" sump pickup and you will see they are already of this design or even more evident to the benefit, some manufacturer's have "revised" their pickups to be of this design where they previously weren't.

Just let it go......if you want to use it use it.

If you don't then don't.

In another thread you stated that it was not only not beneficial, but that it was detrimental.

Then I showed you a car with the baffle and ring kit turning 80-90% duty cycle at over 5-6000rpm around an undulating track with high grip corner Gs in a 1.5 duration enduro (read HOT oil temps).

When I asked you to explain how exactly, an already iffy oiling system for track duty can survive this with a detrimental add on, you went to sleep until 2 months later.

Are there better possible designs, like a custom oil pan....., external oil supply delivery to the front pump's suction, dry sump, etc.., etc...., yes,. there are.
Racing sanctioning bodies do not allow these or everybody would have dry sump.

Just this past year I petitioned 944Cup head to at least allow an external pump and was denied.

Everyone I know that races a 944 variant engined car uses this baffle and ring kit. Not because of lemming mentality......because the theory is sound.

So try the experiment and make your choice.

Then leaved the issue alone.

Or I'll be back to taunt you a second time.....

T
951and944S is offline  
Old 04-30-2017, 07:19 PM
  #26  
Voith
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Voith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Slovenia
Posts: 6,405
Default

Lots of words and no substance. I think you and anybody that believe in this snake oil pickup modification really could use some more fluid dynamics lessons.

You said it lowers the pickup approx one inch. Can you explain how so? it extends beyond oil pan?

Originally Posted by 951and944S View Post
Because oil can pull from the side, when you cover the side, oil can only pull from the bottom.....approximately 1 inch lower.
Pickup is at lowest point at the oil sump as is from the factory. The band doesn't lower it.

Some cars have simpler pickups where this kind of mod actually lowers the level at which oil is sucked in but not in this instance because porsche.





Baffles are effective, some more, some less. I'm not saying baffle is a bad idea but additional baffle on late oilpans is also absolutely not a necesity for race car as many cars are doing super fine without it.

Here's just one RL example: https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...n-baffles.html

Last edited by Voith; 05-03-2017 at 03:38 PM.
Voith is offline  
Old 05-03-2017, 02:35 PM
  #27  
GPA951s
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
GPA951s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Outskirts of Buffalo NY
Posts: 577
Default

Dont want to get involved in the may lay... But another preventive measure that I took was Drilling holes under the main crank bosses. Out scrapers are tight and there is allot of oil being slung around at high revs. The Air behind the piston needs somewhere to go. when it has nowhere to go it forces air into the pan and "froths" the oil like Starbucks. Porsche addressed this issue with the 968 engine by adding holes to the bosses, allowing air to be transferred from the piston coming down to the to the adjacent Cyl where the piston is going up... This prevents "cylinder pumping" That said, when was the last time you heard of a 968 rod failure? Also, if there is a "choice" when taking a left hand turn between downshifting and making the engine scream while in the corner or leaving it in the higher gear, Go for the higher gear and be nice to your engine. At least in club racing, prize money is the same no matter where you finish, but a spun bearing significantly reduces the prize money.... My .02
GPA951s is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: 944 oil pick-up tube "collar"


Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: