2.7 Million Miles and still runs great!
12-29-2011, 02:31 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
2.7 Million Miles and still runs great!
Maybe some of you have seen this. I just discovered it last night.
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...u-go-as-far-/1
The Porsche 944/951/968 is a MUCH better designed and built car than that 1966 Volvo. Just having rust proofing is a huge advantage! The list goes on!
95% of the problems I see hear on the forums are simply due to neglected cars, and years of neglect! The other 5% are abused or A legitimate problem.
Most of our cars would go just as far and look just as good or better than that Volvo if we would catch them up on maintenance and continue to take care of them moving forward!
.....it's not the Porsche's fault, it's the owners in most cases!
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...u-go-as-far-/1
The Porsche 944/951/968 is a MUCH better designed and built car than that 1966 Volvo. Just having rust proofing is a huge advantage! The list goes on!
95% of the problems I see hear on the forums are simply due to neglected cars, and years of neglect! The other 5% are abused or A legitimate problem.
Most of our cars would go just as far and look just as good or better than that Volvo if we would catch them up on maintenance and continue to take care of them moving forward!
.....it's not the Porsche's fault, it's the owners in most cases!
12-29-2011, 04:16 PM
#2
That's my exact opinion too. If you keep up on the maintenence on your Porsche it will last forever. They might be relatively high maintenence but oh well.
I find it hilarious that you get these people with 300k mile Hondas that have an engine full of sludge with a leakdown of 35% and the shocks blown and the bushings torn up and they think it's such a great car.
Jackson
I find it hilarious that you get these people with 300k mile Hondas that have an engine full of sludge with a leakdown of 35% and the shocks blown and the bushings torn up and they think it's such a great car.
Jackson
12-29-2011, 05:41 PM
#3
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Just saying, but a 944 pales in the "looks" category compared to a P1800...
Some Swedish company made a "new" one once (as if it were built today) and it was SEXY...
Some Swedish company made a "new" one once (as if it were built today) and it was SEXY...
12-29-2011, 06:29 PM
#4
Volvo's are truly great cars (at least pre Ford) I've owned 2 760 wagons and abused the hell out of them as work vehicles including turbos and they will last for ever with proper maintenance my wife currently has a V70XC.
I agree the 944 is a great car but I think most have suffered poor owners at some point.
Another point is actualy driving them regualry and not letting cars stand, seals don't like drying out.
I agree the 944 is a great car but I think most have suffered poor owners at some point.
Another point is actualy driving them regualry and not letting cars stand, seals don't like drying out.
12-29-2011, 07:29 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
I disagree. I've owned my 944 for 7 years and rebuilt almost everything in it. It has had countless miles and many brutal owners before me (spent these 7 years fixing their mistakes!)
I know the car very well, and it is not built with as much longevity in mind as some of those 1960's cars. Lets start with the fact that the bores are Alusil. Sorry, Alusil it great stuff for a sports car, but you don't see any Peterbuilt trucks logging 100k's of miles with Alusil engines. They use cast iron - and the bottom line is - cast iron on steel piston rings just lasts longer. They should have sleeved the aluminum block.
Then there's that Audi ring and pinion in the transmission - it uses tapered roller bearings and no thrust bearing (unlike real Porsche gearboxes!) and thus requires shimming to keep the lash correct. The bottom line is those engineers could not have possibly had longevity in mind when using a tapered bearing with shims. They were simply cutting the costs of extra bearings! Should have used thrust bearings.
Then there's that rubber isolated clutch where even if the clutch has little miles, the rubber will crack and fail with age / heat cycles and require removal of the transaxle to replace. What a half assed design and a pain in everyones ***!! They finally got it right with the split bell housing in the 968, where I don't have to remove the TT/transaxle. They could have done a lot of things to facilitate clutch service than they did.
Then there's the power steering system - notoriously shoddy, mainly because the sealing surfaces should have been chromed, and in the 60's - they were!! These are just polished steel - they scratch, they rust and pit - never seal again - squirt fluid everywhere. The pumps (compared to most Zuffenhausens at least) are not that good either.
Oh boy, then there's that A/C unit. You know... the one full of Mitsubishi and Hitachi parts, with a Denso based compressor and wiring / controls from Bosch shoved on top - yeah - that never worked so well in anyones car did it? Honestly - some people have good luck - but most of us cannot afford to constantly troubleshoot our A/C systems and choose to drive without it. Should have used a GERMAN compressor/evaporator with that Bosch equipped Porsche - not Japanese.
Oh wait - then there's the timing belt / water pump / oil pump conundrum. The oil pump should have been keyed to the crankshaft. Not doing that is just asking for trouble. The oil pickup cracks, cavitates, and #2 rod bearings frequently go out - throwing shrapnel to the other bearings. Maybe they should have done a little better than chopping the 5.0L 928 motor in half no?!! The timing belt tension design is poor, and doesnt facilitate longevity of the belts resulting in early engine failure. Nowadays much better systems exist - but even back then there were better designs available to Stuttgart.
Oh yeah - and that waterpump, where we run steel bolts through an aluminum pump housing and into an aluminum block, with coolant flowing over them. Gee - why do you think those bolts come out so rusty? Sometimes they just snap, forcing you to use an easyout, and a helicoil on your block.
Bottom line, the 944 is a great looking, great driving, cheap Porsche - but it was NOT built for longevity. Go take a look at a Peterbuilt. That Volvo was built like a Peterbuilt!
I know the car very well, and it is not built with as much longevity in mind as some of those 1960's cars. Lets start with the fact that the bores are Alusil. Sorry, Alusil it great stuff for a sports car, but you don't see any Peterbuilt trucks logging 100k's of miles with Alusil engines. They use cast iron - and the bottom line is - cast iron on steel piston rings just lasts longer. They should have sleeved the aluminum block.
Then there's that Audi ring and pinion in the transmission - it uses tapered roller bearings and no thrust bearing (unlike real Porsche gearboxes!) and thus requires shimming to keep the lash correct. The bottom line is those engineers could not have possibly had longevity in mind when using a tapered bearing with shims. They were simply cutting the costs of extra bearings! Should have used thrust bearings.
Then there's that rubber isolated clutch where even if the clutch has little miles, the rubber will crack and fail with age / heat cycles and require removal of the transaxle to replace. What a half assed design and a pain in everyones ***!! They finally got it right with the split bell housing in the 968, where I don't have to remove the TT/transaxle. They could have done a lot of things to facilitate clutch service than they did.
Then there's the power steering system - notoriously shoddy, mainly because the sealing surfaces should have been chromed, and in the 60's - they were!! These are just polished steel - they scratch, they rust and pit - never seal again - squirt fluid everywhere. The pumps (compared to most Zuffenhausens at least) are not that good either.
Oh boy, then there's that A/C unit. You know... the one full of Mitsubishi and Hitachi parts, with a Denso based compressor and wiring / controls from Bosch shoved on top - yeah - that never worked so well in anyones car did it? Honestly - some people have good luck - but most of us cannot afford to constantly troubleshoot our A/C systems and choose to drive without it. Should have used a GERMAN compressor/evaporator with that Bosch equipped Porsche - not Japanese.
Oh wait - then there's the timing belt / water pump / oil pump conundrum. The oil pump should have been keyed to the crankshaft. Not doing that is just asking for trouble. The oil pickup cracks, cavitates, and #2 rod bearings frequently go out - throwing shrapnel to the other bearings. Maybe they should have done a little better than chopping the 5.0L 928 motor in half no?!! The timing belt tension design is poor, and doesnt facilitate longevity of the belts resulting in early engine failure. Nowadays much better systems exist - but even back then there were better designs available to Stuttgart.
Oh yeah - and that waterpump, where we run steel bolts through an aluminum pump housing and into an aluminum block, with coolant flowing over them. Gee - why do you think those bolts come out so rusty? Sometimes they just snap, forcing you to use an easyout, and a helicoil on your block.
Bottom line, the 944 is a great looking, great driving, cheap Porsche - but it was NOT built for longevity. Go take a look at a Peterbuilt. That Volvo was built like a Peterbuilt!
12-29-2011, 08:04 PM
#6
I disagree. I've owned my 944 for 7 years and rebuilt almost everything in it. It has had countless miles and many brutal owners before me (spent these 7 years fixing their mistakes!)
I know the car very well, and it is not built with as much longevity in mind as some of those 1960's cars. Lets start with the fact that the bores are Alusil. Sorry, Alusil it great stuff for a sports car, but you don't see any Peterbuilt trucks logging 100k's of miles with Alusil engines. They use cast iron - and the bottom line is - cast iron on steel piston rings just lasts longer. They should have sleeved the aluminum block.
Then there's that Audi ring and pinion in the transmission - it uses tapered roller bearings and no thrust bearing (unlike real Porsche gearboxes!) and thus requires shimming to keep the lash correct. The bottom line is those engineers could not have possibly had longevity in mind when using a tapered bearing with shims. They were simply cutting the costs of extra bearings! Should have used thrust bearings.
Then there's that rubber isolated clutch where even if the clutch has little miles, the rubber will crack and fail with age / heat cycles and require removal of the transaxle to replace. What a half assed design and a pain in everyones ***!! They finally got it right with the split bell housing in the 968, where I don't have to remove the TT/transaxle. They could have done a lot of things to facilitate clutch service than they did.
Then there's the power steering system - notoriously shoddy, mainly because the sealing surfaces should have been chromed, and in the 60's - they were!! These are just polished steel - they scratch, they rust and pit - never seal again - squirt fluid everywhere. The pumps (compared to most Zuffenhausens at least) are not that good either.
Oh boy, then there's that A/C unit. You know... the one full of Mitsubishi and Hitachi parts, with a Denso based compressor and wiring / controls from Bosch shoved on top - yeah - that never worked so well in anyones car did it? Honestly - some people have good luck - but most of us cannot afford to constantly troubleshoot our A/C systems and choose to drive without it. Should have used a GERMAN compressor/evaporator with that Bosch equipped Porsche - not Japanese.
Oh wait - then there's the timing belt / water pump / oil pump conundrum. The oil pump should have been keyed to the crankshaft. Not doing that is just asking for trouble. The oil pickup cracks, cavitates, and #2 rod bearings frequently go out - throwing shrapnel to the other bearings. Maybe they should have done a little better than chopping the 5.0L 928 motor in half no?!! The timing belt tension design is poor, and doesnt facilitate longevity of the belts resulting in early engine failure. Nowadays much better systems exist - but even back then there were better designs available to Stuttgart.
Oh yeah - and that waterpump, where we run steel bolts through an aluminum pump housing and into an aluminum block, with coolant flowing over them. Gee - why do you think those bolts come out so rusty? Sometimes they just snap, forcing you to use an easyout, and a helicoil on your block.
Bottom line, the 944 is a great looking, great driving, cheap Porsche - but it was NOT built for longevity. Go take a look at a Peterbuilt. That Volvo was built like a Peterbuilt!
I know the car very well, and it is not built with as much longevity in mind as some of those 1960's cars. Lets start with the fact that the bores are Alusil. Sorry, Alusil it great stuff for a sports car, but you don't see any Peterbuilt trucks logging 100k's of miles with Alusil engines. They use cast iron - and the bottom line is - cast iron on steel piston rings just lasts longer. They should have sleeved the aluminum block.
Then there's that Audi ring and pinion in the transmission - it uses tapered roller bearings and no thrust bearing (unlike real Porsche gearboxes!) and thus requires shimming to keep the lash correct. The bottom line is those engineers could not have possibly had longevity in mind when using a tapered bearing with shims. They were simply cutting the costs of extra bearings! Should have used thrust bearings.
Then there's that rubber isolated clutch where even if the clutch has little miles, the rubber will crack and fail with age / heat cycles and require removal of the transaxle to replace. What a half assed design and a pain in everyones ***!! They finally got it right with the split bell housing in the 968, where I don't have to remove the TT/transaxle. They could have done a lot of things to facilitate clutch service than they did.
Then there's the power steering system - notoriously shoddy, mainly because the sealing surfaces should have been chromed, and in the 60's - they were!! These are just polished steel - they scratch, they rust and pit - never seal again - squirt fluid everywhere. The pumps (compared to most Zuffenhausens at least) are not that good either.
Oh boy, then there's that A/C unit. You know... the one full of Mitsubishi and Hitachi parts, with a Denso based compressor and wiring / controls from Bosch shoved on top - yeah - that never worked so well in anyones car did it? Honestly - some people have good luck - but most of us cannot afford to constantly troubleshoot our A/C systems and choose to drive without it. Should have used a GERMAN compressor/evaporator with that Bosch equipped Porsche - not Japanese.
Oh wait - then there's the timing belt / water pump / oil pump conundrum. The oil pump should have been keyed to the crankshaft. Not doing that is just asking for trouble. The oil pickup cracks, cavitates, and #2 rod bearings frequently go out - throwing shrapnel to the other bearings. Maybe they should have done a little better than chopping the 5.0L 928 motor in half no?!! The timing belt tension design is poor, and doesnt facilitate longevity of the belts resulting in early engine failure. Nowadays much better systems exist - but even back then there were better designs available to Stuttgart.
Oh yeah - and that waterpump, where we run steel bolts through an aluminum pump housing and into an aluminum block, with coolant flowing over them. Gee - why do you think those bolts come out so rusty? Sometimes they just snap, forcing you to use an easyout, and a helicoil on your block.
Bottom line, the 944 is a great looking, great driving, cheap Porsche - but it was NOT built for longevity. Go take a look at a Peterbuilt. That Volvo was built like a Peterbuilt!
The rubber centered clutch works just fine. It was designed to be used, not sit around. Under normal and consistant use you will wear out the friction material before the rubber hub fails. It isolates driveline vibrations very well, like a precursor to the DMF. The problem arrises when a car is driven 80k miles, put in a garage, pulled out, sold and all of the sudden the new owner (20-some years later) is getting a funny clanking noise after a few weeks.
The AC is great. IF you observe the owners manual which states to use your AC once a month to lubricate your seals you probably won't have any serious problems, maybe a couple recharges, but not a siezed compressor or busted expansion valve. Considering that the 911SC used an antiquated piston york compressor, 40 ft of barrier hose, a whole mess of junky parts, and the evaporator in a remote location (smugglers box) the 83 944 had pretty awesome AC. It only got better with the series 2. The 10P15 compressor is great and the system works great in stock form, even using R134a. Keep in mind AC is mostly to appease the American buyers. It's cold and rainy in deutchland.
The ring an pinion is a weak point, although with fresh carrier bearings most problems can be avoided. What did you want them to do, modify the 915 with its awful synchros to fit the 944? Oh yeah, they did that and it sucked so they went back to the Audi box.
The WP bolts are Cad plated and don't rust as long they are not removed in 25 year intervals. If the car is used regularly then the WP will be replaced every 10 or so years, if not sooner.
IF you use your 944 reguraly and keep up on maintenence you will have a damn good car. Unfortunatly most of us have at one point bought a bad one and most of us learned our lesson that nothing is more expensive than a cheap Porsche. I did on an 84 944. It was my first Porsche and I learned a lot.
Trending Topics
12-29-2011, 10:07 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
12-29-2011, 10:16 PM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
Here is the first problem. You have only owned a 25+\- year old car for the latest 7 years of its life. If someone had taken care of it properly in the first place you would have started in a fine place.
I know the car very well, and it is not built with as much longevity in mind as some of those 1960's cars. Lets start with the fact that the bores are Alusil. Sorry, Alusil it great stuff for a sports car, but you don't see any Peterbuilt trucks logging 100k's of with Alusil engines. They use cast iron - and the bottom line is - cast iron on steel piston rings just lasts longer. They should have sleeved the aluminum block.
Then there's the rest of this silly argument about having to pull trans axles to change clutches.....oooooo....have to pull the transmission on 95% of the cars on earth so what's different?
Comparing a car to a Peterbuilt? Come Awn?! Claw hammer engineering to do claw hammer work can't be compared to a CAD mill for doing milling!
12-29-2011, 11:03 PM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
I seriously doubt that. Have you e Ed had a Volvo serviced? It's not exactly a Ford product and that particular one is a bit rare. Less than 1/3 as many total production of the 944 series and they moved production plants and changed power train several times.
12-29-2011, 11:16 PM
#14
Drifting
Thread Starter
12-29-2011, 11:25 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Sorry Cole, but the 944 and for that matter no Porsche is as reliable as a 4 cylinder volvo. They are absolutely built like tanks and cheap to run and maintain. I have had 6 of them ranging from my current (abused before my ownership)'93 940 Turbo wagon to 240s. They are undoubtably the most reliable and stout car ever made. I know that they are not the sexiest machine, but they are none the less great cars.
BTW, I am the last person that will bash the 944 series car. I have owned mine for 9 years and it to is a great machine, however they don't take the abuse nearly as well as other cars.
BTW, I am the last person that will bash the 944 series car. I have owned mine for 9 years and it to is a great machine, however they don't take the abuse nearly as well as other cars.