Going to look at a 931 Sunday, advice?
03-03-2011, 10:54 PM
#1
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Going to look at a 931 Sunday, advice?
1982 931, brown on brown .
What should this car be worth in good condition?
Anything I should look out for specifically on a 82 931?
The windsheild is cracked, its it the same as a 944?
How should it drive compared to a early 85 944?
Thanks for your input.
What should this car be worth in good condition?
Anything I should look out for specifically on a 82 931?
The windsheild is cracked, its it the same as a 944?
How should it drive compared to a early 85 944?
Thanks for your input.
03-04-2011, 03:33 AM
#3
RL Community Team
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Here's a 924 buyer's guide
http://obin_jess.tripod.com/Porsche/buyersguide.html
the 924 guys tend to hang out on 924board.org, but you are definitely welcome here, if you get the car feel free to pop in for questions or to share pics!
http://obin_jess.tripod.com/Porsche/buyersguide.html
the 924 guys tend to hang out on 924board.org, but you are definitely welcome here, if you get the car feel free to pop in for questions or to share pics!
03-04-2011, 04:00 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
I wouldn't say it's faster than a 944. My 80 931 (with meth injection and boost controller at 10psi) was only 0.2s faster in the quarter than my 924S (15.9 vs 16.1s)
I went from a 931 to 951 and never looked back...
I went from a 931 to 951 and never looked back...
03-04-2011, 11:03 AM
#5
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Unless you are a serious 931 enthusiast and also an accomplished mechanic I would skip it. Metal gas tank, complicated fuel injection system, mechanical speedo, poor turbo heat design, antiquated electronics, older looking interior and the list goes on...
The 924 guys will no doubt jump on this but you'll end up spending the same money if not more that you would on a 951 for less speed, more headache and less return on your $$ and time.
If you just love the 924 looks than pick up an 87 or 88 924s and swap a 951 drivetrain and motor into it. Easy swap, light car and a sleeper and a half!
The 924 guys will no doubt jump on this but you'll end up spending the same money if not more that you would on a 951 for less speed, more headache and less return on your $$ and time.
If you just love the 924 looks than pick up an 87 or 88 924s and swap a 951 drivetrain and motor into it. Easy swap, light car and a sleeper and a half!
03-04-2011, 01:39 PM
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the first 924 was built in 1983 and it's called a 944. the first 931 is the 951. everything that came before, ie (the actual early production run of the 924's) are fugly, prototype cars and not a one of them EVER should have gone into production.... some of you all don't remember the '80s, and it's hard to even imagine but, all i can tell you is the early 924s were visibile on the road for only a few years before they completely disappeared. this is an important part of the 924 legacy to remember. there is a reason for this.
today these 30 year old piles of camel **** are not very collector worthy — marginally road worthy, inferior, development cars that are not up to "Porsche" production car standards. they're only slightly above a Volkswagon "Dasher" on the evolutionary scale.... even Renegade rejected them because they decided that despite their innate greed, it wouldn't be a good idea to sell products that exceeded the performance limits of the cars.
in some ways i dislike the 924S even more despite the lightweight platform and performance, because Porsche put into production an inferior body and interior on purpose!!..... just to have a lower invoice price-point to sell more cars, with the result being that they simply "killed" off the buyer later with a cost of ownership vs/ book value relationship.... they were the third generation of Porsche's throwaway cars after the 914 and the early run of 924's.
sorry for offending people again by calling rubbish by it's proper name. but, it's hard to watch people throw hard-earned money away just to prove a point — that a highly flawed design can be transformed into a marginally servicable car..... owning and maintaining either of the cars in the photos below isn't quite so far-fetched by comparison, and over the long haul, both offer a far better ownership/driving experience.... not to mention the 'envy' factor...
.
today these 30 year old piles of camel **** are not very collector worthy — marginally road worthy, inferior, development cars that are not up to "Porsche" production car standards. they're only slightly above a Volkswagon "Dasher" on the evolutionary scale.... even Renegade rejected them because they decided that despite their innate greed, it wouldn't be a good idea to sell products that exceeded the performance limits of the cars.
in some ways i dislike the 924S even more despite the lightweight platform and performance, because Porsche put into production an inferior body and interior on purpose!!..... just to have a lower invoice price-point to sell more cars, with the result being that they simply "killed" off the buyer later with a cost of ownership vs/ book value relationship.... they were the third generation of Porsche's throwaway cars after the 914 and the early run of 924's.
sorry for offending people again by calling rubbish by it's proper name. but, it's hard to watch people throw hard-earned money away just to prove a point — that a highly flawed design can be transformed into a marginally servicable car..... owning and maintaining either of the cars in the photos below isn't quite so far-fetched by comparison, and over the long haul, both offer a far better ownership/driving experience.... not to mention the 'envy' factor...
.
Last edited by odurandina; 03-04-2011 at 02:36 PM.
03-04-2011, 02:29 PM
#7
Rainman
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the first 924 was built in 1983 and it's called a 944. the first 931 is the 951. everything that came before, ie (all 924s) are extremely fugly, prototype cars and not a one of them EVER should have gone into production..... those 30 year old cars are not very collector worthy — marginally road worthy, highly flawed development cars that are simply not up to "Porsche" standards. they're just Volkswagon pieces of crap...
even Renegade rejected them because they decided that despite their inate greed, it wouldn't be a good idea to sell products that exceeded the performance limits of the cars....
in some ways i dislike the 924S even more despite the lightweight platform and performance, because Porsche put into production an inferior body and interior on purpose!!..... just to have a lower invoice price-point to sell more cars, with the result being that they simply "killed" off the buyer later with a cost of ownership vs/ book value relationship.... they were the second generation of Porsche's throwaway cars after the 914, another car not quite up to par with "Porsche."
sorry for offending people again by calling rubbish by it's proper name. but, it's hard to watch people throw hard-earned money away just to prove a that a highly flawed design can be transformed into a marginally servicable car.
owning and maintaining either of the cars in the photos below isn't quite so far-fetched by comparison, and over the long haul, both offer a far better ownership/driving experience.... not to mention the 'envy' factor....
even Renegade rejected them because they decided that despite their inate greed, it wouldn't be a good idea to sell products that exceeded the performance limits of the cars....
in some ways i dislike the 924S even more despite the lightweight platform and performance, because Porsche put into production an inferior body and interior on purpose!!..... just to have a lower invoice price-point to sell more cars, with the result being that they simply "killed" off the buyer later with a cost of ownership vs/ book value relationship.... they were the second generation of Porsche's throwaway cars after the 914, another car not quite up to par with "Porsche."
sorry for offending people again by calling rubbish by it's proper name. but, it's hard to watch people throw hard-earned money away just to prove a that a highly flawed design can be transformed into a marginally servicable car.
owning and maintaining either of the cars in the photos below isn't quite so far-fetched by comparison, and over the long haul, both offer a far better ownership/driving experience.... not to mention the 'envy' factor....
i dont see any reason why you decide to compare a ferrari to a porsche 924/944...
a 924 is a very simply designed sports car. it may be lacking in power by today's standards, but so is your 20-year-newer 968 (a HONDA ACCORD has 40 more horsepower, stock...same with a CAMRY). it is lightweight, no nonsense (as is the interior). the audi 2.0 in the 924 is a pretty good design, dependable and stout. and if the timing belt breaks, oh well, put another one on and keep going.
the 924S was an entry level car built for a lower price point than a regular 944 using leftover bodies from the early 944s. they had excess stock of the chassis and found a use for them and made money doing it, i see nothing wrong with that. a 924S was faster than a 944 of the same year.
as for 'collector worthiness'...i continually fail to see the point. cars are not meant to be collected. they are not made to be bought, polished and locked away in a barn in portugal. they are meant to be driven long and hard, and the 924 is fully capable of doing that. anyone with a decent set of wrenches and half a brain can do the maintenance on a 924, or 944 for that matter. hell, changing the spark plugs on my infiniti is rocket surgery compared to pretty much anything on the p-car.
my 944, all 951s and your 968 simply would not exist if it werent for the 'fugly prototype' 924.
and if you own a porsche or ferrari for the 'envy' factor, please sell the car to someone who can appreciate it, and then repeatedly close a door on your head.
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03-04-2011, 02:49 PM
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i wasn't comparing a 308 to a 9-2-4..... (at least that's what i need to say, right) but actually i almost could be.....
but actually, compared to a 944 T, they aren't worlds apart. prices for 308s, were hovering in the low 30k 's a few years ago when i checked. the numbers "work." as the cost of ownership remains on par with the 'sex'/performance/collectablity factor imo.... both are pure ****. not off the reservation compared to the cost of having a properly functioning, restored 931. that's all i'm saying.
i'll give you an example of a Rennlister with the salt to buy, own, and maintain a proper 308—Dan (xsboost) could easily do it....
and keep it in the same conversation as a 924 Carrera GT with the result being similar drivability in reasonably, semi-restored condition.
i can't even imagine what sourcing of parts looks like these days for a VW Dasher, Quantum or 931 since they're all about the same...
but actually, compared to a 944 T, they aren't worlds apart. prices for 308s, were hovering in the low 30k 's a few years ago when i checked. the numbers "work." as the cost of ownership remains on par with the 'sex'/performance/collectablity factor imo.... both are pure ****. not off the reservation compared to the cost of having a properly functioning, restored 931. that's all i'm saying.
i'll give you an example of a Rennlister with the salt to buy, own, and maintain a proper 308—Dan (xsboost) could easily do it....
and keep it in the same conversation as a 924 Carrera GT with the result being similar drivability in reasonably, semi-restored condition.
i can't even imagine what sourcing of parts looks like these days for a VW Dasher, Quantum or 931 since they're all about the same...
03-04-2011, 02:53 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Gee odurandina, take a breath, go have a think or two and then reconsider.
Stock Euro 931 smokes every NA 944, depending on circumstances even the S2.
And my stock engined euro 924 (but added EFI+turbo) is exactly on par wih 951 S having the exact HP (250) but slightly less torque. And reliable. Yes, you read right.
And a question for you: how many 931's or 924's have you owned?
Stock Euro 931 smokes every NA 944, depending on circumstances even the S2.
And my stock engined euro 924 (but added EFI+turbo) is exactly on par wih 951 S having the exact HP (250) but slightly less torque. And reliable. Yes, you read right.
And a question for you: how many 931's or 924's have you owned?
03-04-2011, 03:06 PM
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the real question is why?
to be fair, my roommate's '84 quantum reminded me of my '74 Audi Fox (my first car.... a 924 is just cut from '70s WW/Audi dna anyway). when i got behind the wheel of an '87 924S it reminded me of carefree days on North Torrey Pines Rd running from the crowds at Black's to go catch a few at 15th Street in Delmar in the Quantum..... so if you all want to drive a Porsche Fox Turbo, who the hell am i to say no.....
all i'm really talkin' about is an unfinish prototype vs/ the sexy lines of a finshed 944.
to be fair, my roommate's '84 quantum reminded me of my '74 Audi Fox (my first car.... a 924 is just cut from '70s WW/Audi dna anyway). when i got behind the wheel of an '87 924S it reminded me of carefree days on North Torrey Pines Rd running from the crowds at Black's to go catch a few at 15th Street in Delmar in the Quantum..... so if you all want to drive a Porsche Fox Turbo, who the hell am i to say no.....
all i'm really talkin' about is an unfinish prototype vs/ the sexy lines of a finshed 944.
03-04-2011, 04:04 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
You still failed to give a single point that is objective even from one side. This proves that you know basically nothing about older Porsches. Have you ever driven for example a early 1970's 911?
Please, stop giving so much empty answers ( I wonder how many of your 7100+ posts are productive anyway?), seems that you have been busy with this lately (c'mon, join date oct 2009 and 7100+ posts?).
Do you actually do something in the garage too or just chat-chat-chat?
Please, stop giving so much empty answers ( I wonder how many of your 7100+ posts are productive anyway?), seems that you have been busy with this lately (c'mon, join date oct 2009 and 7100+ posts?).
Do you actually do something in the garage too or just chat-chat-chat?
03-04-2011, 04:06 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
To the OP--service records are really important. Make sure you get to drive the car when it's cold all the way to fully warmed up--CIS injection can do odd things. The spark computer and crank sensor are high-dollar parts which can be hard to find...mine came with extras when I bought it. They're the only pitfalls with the car. Everything else applies to a German car with a turbo and CIS. Lots of vacuum lines to leak, a couple compensating valves to stick...common stuff.
They're really cool cars with a niche following.
To good 'ol odorinaouraoia, you seriously need to learn more about cars. The chassis is your chassis--only the 88 951S/89 951 had any additional stiffening. The fuel injection was used by just about every european car in the 70's and 80's, including the 930 and the testarossa. They are simple cars to work on, save for a few caveats. The turbo motor is MUCH smoother than its NA counterpart, just as the 951 is smoother than a 944. By '82, the 931 had discs all around, which Porsche swiped for the 944. You could get an optional suspension with Konis and decent sway bars--the stuff was better than early 944's--and my 931 is outfitted that way. You don't like the lines? Whatever. The NACA hood duct, the front header vents...totally cool in my book.
Time to hit the books. Know your roots.
They're really cool cars with a niche following.
To good 'ol odorinaouraoia, you seriously need to learn more about cars. The chassis is your chassis--only the 88 951S/89 951 had any additional stiffening. The fuel injection was used by just about every european car in the 70's and 80's, including the 930 and the testarossa. They are simple cars to work on, save for a few caveats. The turbo motor is MUCH smoother than its NA counterpart, just as the 951 is smoother than a 944. By '82, the 931 had discs all around, which Porsche swiped for the 944. You could get an optional suspension with Konis and decent sway bars--the stuff was better than early 944's--and my 931 is outfitted that way. You don't like the lines? Whatever. The NACA hood duct, the front header vents...totally cool in my book.
Time to hit the books. Know your roots.
03-04-2011, 05:14 PM
#14
Drifting
931s are just cool because they are rare. most of the ones i've seen are beat up and need to be restored or need tons of money to be a daily driver if that's what you want.
i personally wouldn't get one unless it was a mint example otherwise they are just "cool" but they aren't really faster than 944s they probably "feel" faster.
i personally wouldn't get one unless it was a mint example otherwise they are just "cool" but they aren't really faster than 944s they probably "feel" faster.
