Porsche will reintroduce 944 in 2005!
11-15-2002, 07:57 PM
#106
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[quote]Originally posted by Sean:
<strong>Yeah! And the same goes for the 944! Can you believe Porsche would try to sell us an underpowered, front-engined, water cooled, Volkswagen? Whatever happened to REAL Porsches? Errrrr, wait a minute...
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ah, but you missed my point. I'm not saying anything about what is a real Porsche.
However, the 550 Spyder was designed for racing. The Boxster sure as hell wasn't. Porsche raced the 944 before it was even offered to the public for sale. When have they raced the Boxster.
That is my point. When the 944 came out, Porsche's philosophy was to race every platformed they made. Not today. And that is my gripe.
<strong>Yeah! And the same goes for the 944! Can you believe Porsche would try to sell us an underpowered, front-engined, water cooled, Volkswagen? Whatever happened to REAL Porsches? Errrrr, wait a minute...
</strong><hr></blockquote>Ah, but you missed my point. I'm not saying anything about what is a real Porsche.
However, the 550 Spyder was designed for racing. The Boxster sure as hell wasn't. Porsche raced the 944 before it was even offered to the public for sale. When have they raced the Boxster.
That is my point. When the 944 came out, Porsche's philosophy was to race every platformed they made. Not today. And that is my gripe.
11-15-2002, 08:50 PM
#107
Race Director
[quote]Originally posted by Geo:
<strong>When the 944 came out, Porsche's philosophy was to race every platformed they made. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Ahh the good old days!!!!
Here is to them returning! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> *please?*
<strong>When the 944 came out, Porsche's philosophy was to race every platformed they made. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Ahh the good old days!!!!
Here is to them returning! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> *please?*
11-15-2002, 08:51 PM
#108
I must be the only one who can see Mars951's posts, so I will repeat this for him. Would someone PLEASE tell us which Autoweek this was in, or better yet, post it here for us to see!
Regards, ...Scott
Regards, ...Scott
11-15-2002, 10:42 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Geo:
<strong>
When the 944 came out, Porsche's philosophy was to race every platformed they made. Not today. And that is my gripe.</strong><hr></blockquote>
George,
I hear you, but I've long come to grips with this gripe.
The race for Porsche is now exclusively to Deutchebank (sp?). The influence of the founder is long gone. Only Ferrari is left to live out their racing heritage. I just can't see Porsche dumping mega$$$ into F1...insufficient return on their investment. Times are a changing.
Here's my (selfish) angle...I hope they stick to selling craploads of high $$$ cars...new 996's, Cayennes, and hopefully a top dollar new GT. Get this higher income market segment to keep buying and churning their Porsches so that depreciation comes quickly and is very significant. Let's get those NA 996's down below 30K when they're about 6 years old...'cause then one will have to share the garage with the 'ole 951. A front engine and rear engine water cooled Porsche in a common garage...I like that concept
Mike
<strong>
When the 944 came out, Porsche's philosophy was to race every platformed they made. Not today. And that is my gripe.</strong><hr></blockquote>
George,
I hear you, but I've long come to grips with this gripe.
The race for Porsche is now exclusively to Deutchebank (sp?). The influence of the founder is long gone. Only Ferrari is left to live out their racing heritage. I just can't see Porsche dumping mega$$$ into F1...insufficient return on their investment. Times are a changing.
Here's my (selfish) angle...I hope they stick to selling craploads of high $$$ cars...new 996's, Cayennes, and hopefully a top dollar new GT. Get this higher income market segment to keep buying and churning their Porsches so that depreciation comes quickly and is very significant. Let's get those NA 996's down below 30K when they're about 6 years old...'cause then one will have to share the garage with the 'ole 951. A front engine and rear engine water cooled Porsche in a common garage...I like that concept
Mike
11-16-2002, 02:49 AM
#111
Okay, at the risk of sounding ignorant (or at least learning something new)... Did Porsche actively race the 928? How about the 968?
With regards to "550 inspiration," I won;t belabor the point... But the styling cues are pretty obvious. (And besides, Porsche says so!
) It's easy to say that 'it's only marketing,' but frankly, the racing is marketing too. In fact, unless you are racing your Porsche and taking full advantage of the racing technology, then you are simply wanting Porsche to race because you prefer that kind of marketing.
I agree that Porsche should resume the factory racing program and build its cars with race ready technology, like a true dry sump engine - for those who want to race their cars.
But sadly, there is no indication from PAG that it will again embrace this direction. Note that the upcoming Carrera GT will NOT be raced.
With regards to "550 inspiration," I won;t belabor the point... But the styling cues are pretty obvious. (And besides, Porsche says so!
) It's easy to say that 'it's only marketing,' but frankly, the racing is marketing too. In fact, unless you are racing your Porsche and taking full advantage of the racing technology, then you are simply wanting Porsche to race because you prefer that kind of marketing.I agree that Porsche should resume the factory racing program and build its cars with race ready technology, like a true dry sump engine - for those who want to race their cars.
But sadly, there is no indication from PAG that it will again embrace this direction. Note that the upcoming Carrera GT will NOT be raced.
11-16-2002, 04:16 AM
#113
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Allright, I have to ask- several have mentioned about engines being built by Porsche, etc. I've been told that the 951 engine was built in- is it Cuba maybe?- wherever they build Hyundais. Don't jump me for saying this- not trying to knock my own car, but my mechnic had said this, and had worked for Porsche dealers for YEARS before owning his own shop- he's been to all kinds of Porsche schools, and probably has more Porsche certifications than all of the other mechanics in my area combined- not sure he's right though....
Also, MARSII has asked several times, and I'm interested as well- what issue of Autoweek had the 948 article?
I also agree w/Max that >$50K was a HELL of a lot of $ some 12yrs ago. Of course it is true that the 944S2, etc was well above the average car back then- I personally love the interior layout- the lighting could be better, but I really don't like the interior look of the Boxster & 996 at all by comparison- of course, I think Audi has everyone beat in that category. It is also interesting that all of the Porsche's are now realy starting to look like clones.
somone mentione trying to install a VR6 into a 944- I love that idea- I'd love to have the $ to throw at it in an EXTRA 944- you know- just in case it didn't work. I wonder how reliable a turbo charged ~3.3L VR6 would be(?). They have stroker kits to bring them up to 3.0L & 3.1L, and bore can come up at LEAST 200cc's- The euro VR6 was a 2.9L putting out over 190HP- that was 10yrs ago! Now they're bragging about ~200HP from an engine w/TWICE the valves and an extra 10yrs of technology...
Also, MARSII has asked several times, and I'm interested as well- what issue of Autoweek had the 948 article?
I also agree w/Max that >$50K was a HELL of a lot of $ some 12yrs ago. Of course it is true that the 944S2, etc was well above the average car back then- I personally love the interior layout- the lighting could be better, but I really don't like the interior look of the Boxster & 996 at all by comparison- of course, I think Audi has everyone beat in that category. It is also interesting that all of the Porsche's are now realy starting to look like clones.
somone mentione trying to install a VR6 into a 944- I love that idea- I'd love to have the $ to throw at it in an EXTRA 944- you know- just in case it didn't work. I wonder how reliable a turbo charged ~3.3L VR6 would be(?). They have stroker kits to bring them up to 3.0L & 3.1L, and bore can come up at LEAST 200cc's- The euro VR6 was a 2.9L putting out over 190HP- that was 10yrs ago! Now they're bragging about ~200HP from an engine w/TWICE the valves and an extra 10yrs of technology...
11-16-2002, 06:23 AM
#114
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[quote]Originally posted by Robby:
<strong>Allright, I have to ask- several have mentioned about engines being built by Porsche, etc. I've been told that the 951 engine was built in- is it Cuba maybe?- wherever they build Hyundais. Don't jump me for saying this- not trying to knock my own car, but my mechnic had said this, and had worked for Porsche dealers for YEARS before owning his own shop- he's been to all kinds of Porsche schools, and probably has more Porsche certifications than all of the other mechanics in my area combined- not sure he's right though....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow, what a scream if that were true. Cuba might have had the capability to build decent engines back in the days of Barreiros, a Spanish immigrant who developed a successful line of trucks and built them there in the '60s and '70s, I believe, but when the 951 was introduced at the height of the Cold War in '85, Cuba, a Soviet protegée, was already pretty heavily embargoed by foreign trade, making your mechanic's theory darned near impossible.
Of course in Tennessee you also hear about "Elvis sightings" and who would believe that...
The whole "engine built by Porsche" controversy stemmed from the fact that the 924 was built by Audi and also had an Audi engine. The 944 was developed to change that and increase the market appeal of the car which was waning. The concept of an Audi built car with a genuine Porsche engine was a strategic gamble instigated by the company's chief officer during the '80s, an American named Schultz.
The engine was designed by the R&D department at Weissach, and built at the Porsche plant in Zuffenhausen, alongside the 911 and other "real" Porsche engines. AFAIK, in the mid '80s the only German automaker building cars in Latin America was Volkswagen in Brazil and at the plant in Puebla, Mexico, and I'm not even sure the engines were assembled there or imported. Maybe Z-man can fill us in on that.
The 944 was a very successful car as a Porsche in its own right and Schultz's gamble paid off, making Porsche A.G. a ton of money to fund its expansion from the '90s through today.
Hyundais are made in Asia. In Korea IIRC.
<strong>Allright, I have to ask- several have mentioned about engines being built by Porsche, etc. I've been told that the 951 engine was built in- is it Cuba maybe?- wherever they build Hyundais. Don't jump me for saying this- not trying to knock my own car, but my mechnic had said this, and had worked for Porsche dealers for YEARS before owning his own shop- he's been to all kinds of Porsche schools, and probably has more Porsche certifications than all of the other mechanics in my area combined- not sure he's right though....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow, what a scream if that were true. Cuba might have had the capability to build decent engines back in the days of Barreiros, a Spanish immigrant who developed a successful line of trucks and built them there in the '60s and '70s, I believe, but when the 951 was introduced at the height of the Cold War in '85, Cuba, a Soviet protegée, was already pretty heavily embargoed by foreign trade, making your mechanic's theory darned near impossible.
Of course in Tennessee you also hear about "Elvis sightings" and who would believe that...
The whole "engine built by Porsche" controversy stemmed from the fact that the 924 was built by Audi and also had an Audi engine. The 944 was developed to change that and increase the market appeal of the car which was waning. The concept of an Audi built car with a genuine Porsche engine was a strategic gamble instigated by the company's chief officer during the '80s, an American named Schultz.
The engine was designed by the R&D department at Weissach, and built at the Porsche plant in Zuffenhausen, alongside the 911 and other "real" Porsche engines. AFAIK, in the mid '80s the only German automaker building cars in Latin America was Volkswagen in Brazil and at the plant in Puebla, Mexico, and I'm not even sure the engines were assembled there or imported. Maybe Z-man can fill us in on that.
The 944 was a very successful car as a Porsche in its own right and Schultz's gamble paid off, making Porsche A.G. a ton of money to fund its expansion from the '90s through today.
Hyundais are made in Asia. In Korea IIRC.
11-16-2002, 11:22 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Luis de Prat:
Of course in Tennessee you also hear about "Elvis sightings" and who would believe that...<hr></blockquote>
Man, where the hell have you been? Elvis has been living in OK for >10yrs. He rarely ever comes to Graceland b/c of persistent & unfounded rumors of...well, I better not say- he IS a friend. I've been trying to get him to go to Road Atlanta w/me sometime this spring. He's a big 911 buff, so I'm hoping to really roast his *** to show him what a front-engine, RWD, 4cyl water pumper can do
Seriously- I'm not sure at ALL about the place my mechanic had said- it may have actually been Korea(?)- I'm shooting him an e-mail right now, to find out- I'll let you know what he says- of course, it still won't necessarily make it true. I was aware the 924's engine was supposedly built by Audi- 924 transaxle too- hence Windward's theory that they are actually stronger than a 951 trans- I've still never heard of ANYONE actually trading a 951 tranny for a 924's A 968 trrans is a dif story, as they ARE stronger...
BTW Luis- where are you, and where is that Turbo S cab? Also, what color is it? Have you done ANTYHING to it at all- chips, turbo, susp, etc? Anyway, beautiful car!!! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Of course in Tennessee you also hear about "Elvis sightings" and who would believe that...<hr></blockquote>
Man, where the hell have you been? Elvis has been living in OK for >10yrs. He rarely ever comes to Graceland b/c of persistent & unfounded rumors of...well, I better not say- he IS a friend. I've been trying to get him to go to Road Atlanta w/me sometime this spring. He's a big 911 buff, so I'm hoping to really roast his *** to show him what a front-engine, RWD, 4cyl water pumper can do
Seriously- I'm not sure at ALL about the place my mechanic had said- it may have actually been Korea(?)- I'm shooting him an e-mail right now, to find out- I'll let you know what he says- of course, it still won't necessarily make it true. I was aware the 924's engine was supposedly built by Audi- 924 transaxle too- hence Windward's theory that they are actually stronger than a 951 trans- I've still never heard of ANYONE actually trading a 951 tranny for a 924's
A 968 trrans is a dif story, as they ARE stronger... BTW Luis- where are you, and where is that Turbo S cab? Also, what color is it? Have you done ANTYHING to it at all- chips, turbo, susp, etc? Anyway, beautiful car!!! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
11-16-2002, 12:24 PM
#116
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[quote]Originally posted by Robby:
<strong>BTW Luis- where are you, and where is that Turbo S cab? Also, what color is it? Have you done ANTYHING to it at all- chips, turbo, susp, etc? Anyway, beautiful car!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hi Robby, I was in Memphis this summer actually, in my S2 cabrio. Visited Graceland and had some great BBQ on Beale Street. My car was the only Porsche in the "Elvisland" parking lot.
I enjoyed seeing the car collection including the Ferrari GTB and those eccentric Stutz Blackhawks the king liked so much.
I later read that he briefly owned a yellow DeTomaso Pantera which on one occasion would not start and Mr. Presley put a few bullets in its door which the current owner of the car has left unrestored as part of its legendary history.
I'm presently in the Caribbean, but have moved around a lot. The turbo cab is a factory car and completely stock. I have it in storage in Spain as a vacation car and will be fitting it with a set of genuine C2T 17" wheels this Xmas
The '83 is here and I drive it daily over these awful roads but those fat tires handle it better than the S2 ever would. I have it in storage in Florida and I'm presently debating whether to sell it or ship it to Spain. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>BTW Luis- where are you, and where is that Turbo S cab? Also, what color is it? Have you done ANTYHING to it at all- chips, turbo, susp, etc? Anyway, beautiful car!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hi Robby, I was in Memphis this summer actually, in my S2 cabrio. Visited Graceland and had some great BBQ on Beale Street. My car was the only Porsche in the "Elvisland" parking lot.
I enjoyed seeing the car collection including the Ferrari GTB and those eccentric Stutz Blackhawks the king liked so much.
I later read that he briefly owned a yellow DeTomaso Pantera which on one occasion would not start and Mr. Presley put a few bullets in its door which the current owner of the car has left unrestored as part of its legendary history.
I'm presently in the Caribbean, but have moved around a lot. The turbo cab is a factory car and completely stock. I have it in storage in Spain as a vacation car and will be fitting it with a set of genuine C2T 17" wheels this Xmas
The '83 is here and I drive it daily over these awful roads but those fat tires handle it better than the S2 ever would. I have it in storage in Florida and I'm presently debating whether to sell it or ship it to Spain. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
