How much is this 951 really worth?
10-04-2002, 01:48 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
How much is this 951 really worth?
1987 Porsche 944 Turbo
61,000 miles
2-owner car
Guards Red, black interior
Exterior immaculate 9.5/10
Interior excellent 9/10
(one small dash crack, cassette hinge broken)
Following recent upgrades ($4000 worth): performance chip, suspension (stage I), exhaust
Upgrades aside, appearance is stock (phone dial wheels, etc.).
Car has records, receipts.
Car is at dealership. Dealer is asking $15,900.
How much is this 951 really worth?
61,000 miles
2-owner car
Guards Red, black interior
Exterior immaculate 9.5/10
Interior excellent 9/10
(one small dash crack, cassette hinge broken)
Following recent upgrades ($4000 worth): performance chip, suspension (stage I), exhaust
Upgrades aside, appearance is stock (phone dial wheels, etc.).
Car has records, receipts.
Car is at dealership. Dealer is asking $15,900.
How much is this 951 really worth?
10-04-2002, 02:02 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Well really it all depends on a few things...
When was the timing belt changed last?
clutch?
Has a leak down and compression test been done on the motor? if so results?
What is a stage I suspension exactly? What parts were used?
Coming from a dealer to you get any sort of warrenty?
If this is a really clean car, you have it a 9.5 and 9 so I assume it is, with a fairly new clutch and timing belts with good compression and leakdown number then it could be worth what they are asking.
If the timing belt is 30k old, and the clutch is the original, well it is substanitally less.
In the end the car is worth to you what you are willing to pay for it.....
When was the timing belt changed last?
clutch?
Has a leak down and compression test been done on the motor? if so results?
What is a stage I suspension exactly? What parts were used?
Coming from a dealer to you get any sort of warrenty?
If this is a really clean car, you have it a 9.5 and 9 so I assume it is, with a fairly new clutch and timing belts with good compression and leakdown number then it could be worth what they are asking.
If the timing belt is 30k old, and the clutch is the original, well it is substanitally less.
In the end the car is worth to you what you are willing to pay for it.....
10-04-2002, 02:37 PM
#4
Drifting
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Here are some 951's alot cheaper that seem equal to that machine.
90 PORSCHE 944 turbo(S), local MCL car, blk on blk, rcnt major serv, incl timing belt, water pump, clutch, tires, valve & head gasket, 968 style spoiler, full serv history, fact alarm, $10,000 spent $21,500. Serious inq's only. Vancouver
86 PORSCHE 944 Turbo, 5 spd, in exc cond, nvr winter driven, upgraded stereo & CD player, new brks, tires & exh, no accidents, rare & fast $15,500 obo. Langley
<a href="http://www.buysell.com/showad.asp?id=12860131" target="_blank">http://www.buysell.com/showad.asp?id=12860131</a>
<a href="http://www.buysell.com/bestoffer/viewoffer.asp?id=12945269" target="_blank">http://www.buysell.com/bestoffer/viewoffer.asp?id=12945269</a>
I hope this helps out! These cars are all in canadian dollars too.
90 PORSCHE 944 turbo(S), local MCL car, blk on blk, rcnt major serv, incl timing belt, water pump, clutch, tires, valve & head gasket, 968 style spoiler, full serv history, fact alarm, $10,000 spent $21,500. Serious inq's only. Vancouver
86 PORSCHE 944 Turbo, 5 spd, in exc cond, nvr winter driven, upgraded stereo & CD player, new brks, tires & exh, no accidents, rare & fast $15,500 obo. Langley
<a href="http://www.buysell.com/showad.asp?id=12860131" target="_blank">http://www.buysell.com/showad.asp?id=12860131</a>
<a href="http://www.buysell.com/bestoffer/viewoffer.asp?id=12945269" target="_blank">http://www.buysell.com/bestoffer/viewoffer.asp?id=12945269</a>
I hope this helps out! These cars are all in canadian dollars too.
10-04-2002, 03:48 PM
#5
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[quote] Car has records, receipts.
Car is at dealership. Dealer is asking $15,900.
How much is this 951 really worth?
<hr></blockquote>
That deal is about as good as a local 84 944 for sale for $12,500 <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> it has been for sale over a year.
Car is at dealership. Dealer is asking $15,900.
How much is this 951 really worth?
<hr></blockquote>
That deal is about as good as a local 84 944 for sale for $12,500 <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> it has been for sale over a year.
10-04-2002, 05:02 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks for the feedback. I agree with your general sentiments.
For $16k you can get a clean 968 coupe (errr, assuming you can find one).
This particular 951 looks great. But the price is quite aggressive (and I doubt it includes any sort of warranty - maybe 30 days at best). I have reviewed the Excellence magazine "market update" section, which has values that some may find controversially low. But it seems like even $12k would be on the high side for this car. Maybe around $8k would be a good deal.
For $16k you can get a clean 968 coupe (errr, assuming you can find one).
This particular 951 looks great. But the price is quite aggressive (and I doubt it includes any sort of warranty - maybe 30 days at best). I have reviewed the Excellence magazine "market update" section, which has values that some may find controversially low. But it seems like even $12k would be on the high side for this car. Maybe around $8k would be a good deal.
10-04-2002, 05:39 PM
#7
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I've seen 8,000-12,000 for the 951 (86-88) on KBB as used car retail value (from a dealer) so depending on the conidition of the car.
I would subtract 1,000-2,000 for private party and adjust upwards in value for the low mileage in your case
I would subtract 1,000-2,000 for private party and adjust upwards in value for the low mileage in your case
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10-04-2002, 07:34 PM
#8
Thinking outside da' bun...
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KBB is fairly accurate for mass produced vehicles, but they are notoriously way off for niche vehicles and sports cars/exotics.
Here a main reason why:
If you have a 1994 Toyota Corolla, you stick an ad in the paper and could care less who calls you to take a look at it. Hundreds of thousands of people drive them and need a Toyota Corolla. The market is saturated with people who will buy this car. Whether you are rich or poor, someone needs a Corolla.
Nobody needs a Porsche. You may like one and may be able to afford one, but they are pure luxury vehicles and 98% of the population doesnt own one and will never in their life own one. Consider it part lifestyle, part lack of dispoable income.
So people selling their Porsche arent going to market it to people who need Toyota Corollas (i.e. people who read the paper every morning). Someone who wants to buy a Porsche whos the model he wants, the condition he desires, the color, the trim, etc etc. Its a niche purchase. And thus, Porsche sellers are going to specifically market the vehicle to people who want to buy it more than Joe Smith who goes to and from work every day in his Corolla and lives an otherwise happy existence.
KBB doesnt account for this. You arent going to sell your Porsche to Nancy, the 79 year old grandmother of nine. You will go to Porsche events, message forums, et al and conduct yourself like a SMART BUSINESSMAN/BUSINESSWOMAN and sell such a niche product to only those who have a burning in their gut for it. Because to the rest of society, Porsches are a waste of money and folks have no desire to own one.
So if you just stick your Porsche ad in the local paper, you aren't going to necessarily best target those who want your car and you'll get XX dollars. You wouldnt try selling ice to Eskimoes, so why sell your Porsche that way, so Porsche owners stick amongst themselves and pass the cars around between us because we realize the performance, exclusiviity, and rarity of the vehicle and want to pay that premium.
Ok long-winded as hell, but KBB is a poor indicator of this reality and is notorious for low-balling what you can honestly fetch for your exotic (porsche, ferrari, classic car, etc).
Not to say Porsche buyers dont want to find a good deal too, but we're by our vaery nature going to be inclined to pay more money for a brand of car than most of the world would bother paying. Extrapolate it out and you can see that most people would tell you a $250,000 Lamborghini isnt more a penny over $30,000 to them. They dont give a crap about fins and horsepower and Italian design. They just want to get to work and back. To an exclusive few though, $250,000 is a steal -- and thats who you market it to.
You can have a mint Lamborghini sit unsold in an Alabama used car lot for 20% less than it was built and sold for a day earlier. Take it to an auction wehere people want the car and it will sell for 20% over MSRP.
Here a main reason why:
If you have a 1994 Toyota Corolla, you stick an ad in the paper and could care less who calls you to take a look at it. Hundreds of thousands of people drive them and need a Toyota Corolla. The market is saturated with people who will buy this car. Whether you are rich or poor, someone needs a Corolla.
Nobody needs a Porsche. You may like one and may be able to afford one, but they are pure luxury vehicles and 98% of the population doesnt own one and will never in their life own one. Consider it part lifestyle, part lack of dispoable income.
So people selling their Porsche arent going to market it to people who need Toyota Corollas (i.e. people who read the paper every morning). Someone who wants to buy a Porsche whos the model he wants, the condition he desires, the color, the trim, etc etc. Its a niche purchase. And thus, Porsche sellers are going to specifically market the vehicle to people who want to buy it more than Joe Smith who goes to and from work every day in his Corolla and lives an otherwise happy existence.
KBB doesnt account for this. You arent going to sell your Porsche to Nancy, the 79 year old grandmother of nine. You will go to Porsche events, message forums, et al and conduct yourself like a SMART BUSINESSMAN/BUSINESSWOMAN and sell such a niche product to only those who have a burning in their gut for it. Because to the rest of society, Porsches are a waste of money and folks have no desire to own one.
So if you just stick your Porsche ad in the local paper, you aren't going to necessarily best target those who want your car and you'll get XX dollars. You wouldnt try selling ice to Eskimoes, so why sell your Porsche that way, so Porsche owners stick amongst themselves and pass the cars around between us because we realize the performance, exclusiviity, and rarity of the vehicle and want to pay that premium.
Ok long-winded as hell, but KBB is a poor indicator of this reality and is notorious for low-balling what you can honestly fetch for your exotic (porsche, ferrari, classic car, etc).
Not to say Porsche buyers dont want to find a good deal too, but we're by our vaery nature going to be inclined to pay more money for a brand of car than most of the world would bother paying. Extrapolate it out and you can see that most people would tell you a $250,000 Lamborghini isnt more a penny over $30,000 to them. They dont give a crap about fins and horsepower and Italian design. They just want to get to work and back. To an exclusive few though, $250,000 is a steal -- and thats who you market it to.
You can have a mint Lamborghini sit unsold in an Alabama used car lot for 20% less than it was built and sold for a day earlier. Take it to an auction wehere people want the car and it will sell for 20% over MSRP.
10-04-2002, 08:53 PM
#9
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Ian is on the money here, I think.
By the way, at $8K you wouldn't be asking about this car, because it would be gone!
I'd say 9.5 - 11 or so, depending on clutch/belts. FYI a clutch job is from 1500 - 2500 on a 951, in case you don't know.
And red/black is easy to find. If you want a 951, keep looking and you'll come across one at a much more reasonable price.
By the way, at $8K you wouldn't be asking about this car, because it would be gone!
I'd say 9.5 - 11 or so, depending on clutch/belts. FYI a clutch job is from 1500 - 2500 on a 951, in case you don't know.
And red/black is easy to find. If you want a 951, keep looking and you'll come across one at a much more reasonable price.
10-05-2002, 12:57 PM
#11
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Even more entertaining:
[quote] 1986 944 2D Coupe
151,000 miles, New Guards Red Paint/New Black Interior. Always garaged,
and driven frequently and just started showing it at PCA events. New timing
belt (all parts), clutch (all parts), linkage and shifter, rotors, control arms,
rack and pinion, brakes, tires, wheels reconditioned, etc. Excellent condition
from the ground up, with no rust and thousands in new OEM parts and Porsche
service. EVERYTHING works, including the A/C which has been converted to
R134. Power windows, mirrors, drivers seat, cruise, CD Player. 20 June 02.
$17,900
<hr></blockquote>
pics here:
<a href="http://www.carolinas-pca.com/944classifieds.htm" target="_blank">carolinas pca</a>
Jason
[quote] 1986 944 2D Coupe
151,000 miles, New Guards Red Paint/New Black Interior. Always garaged,
and driven frequently and just started showing it at PCA events. New timing
belt (all parts), clutch (all parts), linkage and shifter, rotors, control arms,
rack and pinion, brakes, tires, wheels reconditioned, etc. Excellent condition
from the ground up, with no rust and thousands in new OEM parts and Porsche
service. EVERYTHING works, including the A/C which has been converted to
R134. Power windows, mirrors, drivers seat, cruise, CD Player. 20 June 02.
$17,900
<hr></blockquote>
pics here:
<a href="http://www.carolinas-pca.com/944classifieds.htm" target="_blank">carolinas pca</a>
Jason
