MAF confusion....how do I choose??
03-04-2002, 05:11 PM
#17
Race Director
Has lindsey agreed with this statement? If it is great..then that looks like a good alternative. Until i see more than 1 or 2 installed successfully by someone i trust (like u) I would pay the extra $$$ to protect my car. At least the kits from lindsey/huntley/SFR have proven themselves. means alot to me.
03-04-2002, 05:30 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
[quote]Originally posted by SamGrant951:
<strong>Has lindsey agreed with this statement? </strong><hr></blockquote>
NO, they haven't. But when shopping for MAF's and talking to both Lindsey and Huntley about their fuel controllers. (I will consider the SFR close to the Huntley because both use the ARC 2). Both companies fed me a bunch of lines. Both companies gave me conflicting info and countered each other's statements with remarks that would insult people if I went any further.
I got really fed up with it and decided to try something completely different.
. You will never know the full story on any of these company's MAF's and where they differ. They are all so similar that they have to be able to justify the price difference. If a guy can acheive a good A/F ratio with a non adj. MAF I am absolutley POSITIVE that you could acheive a 12.5:1 on the HUNTLEY, SFR, LINDSEY, PRO FLOW, and AUTOTHORITY MAF's on a decent running motor. Some, it might be alittle more difficult to acheive with, but Im going to attemp it and prove to all of you guys that everybody is paying way to much for a tube and a hot wire sensor!
.SO, no. Lindsey has not differentiated between their MAC 2 and the box PRO FLOW has been using. I doubt it will ever happen? How different can you make two boxes that controll a general mixture pot. and an idle pot??? The PRO FLOW has a very wide range of adjment to be the way. So in the mean time I can't comment any more on the PRO FLOW, but in 3 weeks I will show you. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> (j/k)
And I really look forward to it BTW
But seriously, if you spent $1500 for a MAF (and Im sure the ones that haven't on here WILL) you will start crying when it arrives. There's nothing to it!!! It's so simple. It's the sum of 2 rather inexpensive devices. It's so simple, in fact that the companies have to advertise how they "place" these devices in relation to each other as a SELLING POINT!!!
.
You KNOW that as soon as MAP sensor become a little more popular the price of MAF's will drop down to the PRO FLOW range!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How naive can we be to let the old "supply and demand" donkey kick our asses every time????????
<strong>Has lindsey agreed with this statement? </strong><hr></blockquote>
NO, they haven't. But when shopping for MAF's and talking to both Lindsey and Huntley about their fuel controllers. (I will consider the SFR close to the Huntley because both use the ARC 2). Both companies fed me a bunch of lines. Both companies gave me conflicting info and countered each other's statements with remarks that would insult people if I went any further.
I got really fed up with it and decided to try something completely different.
. You will never know the full story on any of these company's MAF's and where they differ. They are all so similar that they have to be able to justify the price difference. If a guy can acheive a good A/F ratio with a non adj. MAF I am absolutley POSITIVE that you could acheive a 12.5:1 on the HUNTLEY, SFR, LINDSEY, PRO FLOW, and AUTOTHORITY MAF's on a decent running motor. Some, it might be alittle more difficult to acheive with, but Im going to attemp it and prove to all of you guys that everybody is paying way to much for a tube and a hot wire sensor!
.SO, no. Lindsey has not differentiated between their MAC 2 and the box PRO FLOW has been using. I doubt it will ever happen? How different can you make two boxes that controll a general mixture pot. and an idle pot??? The PRO FLOW has a very wide range of adjment to be the way. So in the mean time I can't comment any more on the PRO FLOW, but in 3 weeks I will show you. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> (j/k)
And I really look forward to it BTW
But seriously, if you spent $1500 for a MAF (and Im sure the ones that haven't on here WILL) you will start crying when it arrives. There's nothing to it!!! It's so simple. It's the sum of 2 rather inexpensive devices. It's so simple, in fact that the companies have to advertise how they "place" these devices in relation to each other as a SELLING POINT!!!
.
You KNOW that as soon as MAP sensor become a little more popular the price of MAF's will drop down to the PRO FLOW range!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How naive can we be to let the old "supply and demand" donkey kick our asses every time????????
03-05-2002, 01:18 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
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THe speed force racing MAF kit also uses the ARCII unit, and contrary to another tuner's post on this yopic, we do NOT have an overrich on any part of our curve...this used to be called "the huntley V", but it had a lot to do with tuning. Our kits are solid and we will show our curves toi anyone that asks...most people want HP graphs, thats why we do not bother with the showing of the fuel mixtures...but we get solid mixtures accross the board.
03-05-2002, 10:59 AM
#20
Drifting
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Originally posted by rage2:
If you're not willing to spend the time to tune a standalone engine management system, get a MAF. If you ARE willing to invest in the initial setup time, standalone EFI is very rewarding. My daily driver SDS 951 runs awesome in ANY temperature range. Fires right up everytime in -30C or 30C temperatures without tweaking!
Originally posted by 951 & 944S:
Me thinks Rage hit it on the head...!
There are some who want hands off (chips), some hands on (MAF), or total control (stand alone), over the systems tuning...
You need to figure out which YOU want....!
You know, I was thinking (Doh!) that as more of us commit to the standalones that we can make that commitment more of a plug and play for the folks who don't want or feel comfortable with the in depth involvement of designing your own fuel maps or sensor brackets. Rage was kind enough to let me (us) download his stock injector maps. Let's think of that data as the "Rage Chip" for big/fat turbo/headwork/big/fat injectors. Anyone who can post on this board could "install" the Rage Chip on the SDS in less time than it would take to install "real" chips. Soon there will be the "Russ Chip" for stock turbo/cat bypass/stock injectors. Pretty soon there'll be more and more precise versions "availible" than stock chips.
Instead of hundreds of dollars for "real" chips there would just be a small gratuity involved.
My guess is that in Rage's case it would be letting him do donuts in all of your cars.
If you're not willing to spend the time to tune a standalone engine management system, get a MAF. If you ARE willing to invest in the initial setup time, standalone EFI is very rewarding. My daily driver SDS 951 runs awesome in ANY temperature range. Fires right up everytime in -30C or 30C temperatures without tweaking!
Originally posted by 951 & 944S:
Me thinks Rage hit it on the head...!
There are some who want hands off (chips), some hands on (MAF), or total control (stand alone), over the systems tuning...
You need to figure out which YOU want....!
You know, I was thinking (Doh!) that as more of us commit to the standalones that we can make that commitment more of a plug and play for the folks who don't want or feel comfortable with the in depth involvement of designing your own fuel maps or sensor brackets. Rage was kind enough to let me (us) download his stock injector maps. Let's think of that data as the "Rage Chip" for big/fat turbo/headwork/big/fat injectors. Anyone who can post on this board could "install" the Rage Chip on the SDS in less time than it would take to install "real" chips. Soon there will be the "Russ Chip" for stock turbo/cat bypass/stock injectors. Pretty soon there'll be more and more precise versions "availible" than stock chips.
Instead of hundreds of dollars for "real" chips there would just be a small gratuity involved.
My guess is that in Rage's case it would be letting him do donuts in all of your cars.
03-05-2002, 12:07 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
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[quote]Originally posted by Russ Murphy:
<strong>You know, I was thinking (Doh!) that as more of us commit to the standalones that we can make that commitment more of a plug and play for the folks who don't want or feel comfortable with the in depth involvement of designing your own fuel maps or sensor brackets. Rage was kind enough to let me (us) download his stock injector maps. Let's think of that data as the "Rage Chip" for big/fat turbo/headwork/big/fat injectors. Anyone who can post on this board could "install" the Rage Chip on the SDS in less time than it would take to install "real" chips. Soon there will be the "Russ Chip" for stock turbo/cat bypass/stock injectors. Pretty soon there'll be more and more precise versions "availible" than stock chips.
Instead of hundreds of dollars for "real" chips there would just be a small gratuity involved.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't say the "Rage chips" or the "Russ Chips" are perfect for everyone. You will need to do some tuning off my "chips" (they were the 1st revision before much road tuning). They do, however, make a great baseline for you to work with, saving you time to get the car running initially. Once you tweak 'em, it becomes <insert your name here> chips. More baseline "chips" for the masses (a good thing).
[quote]Originally posted by Russ Murphy:
<strong>My guess is that in Rage's case it would be letting him do donuts in all of your cars.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll bring my own CV joints =).
<strong>You know, I was thinking (Doh!) that as more of us commit to the standalones that we can make that commitment more of a plug and play for the folks who don't want or feel comfortable with the in depth involvement of designing your own fuel maps or sensor brackets. Rage was kind enough to let me (us) download his stock injector maps. Let's think of that data as the "Rage Chip" for big/fat turbo/headwork/big/fat injectors. Anyone who can post on this board could "install" the Rage Chip on the SDS in less time than it would take to install "real" chips. Soon there will be the "Russ Chip" for stock turbo/cat bypass/stock injectors. Pretty soon there'll be more and more precise versions "availible" than stock chips.
Instead of hundreds of dollars for "real" chips there would just be a small gratuity involved.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn't say the "Rage chips" or the "Russ Chips" are perfect for everyone. You will need to do some tuning off my "chips" (they were the 1st revision before much road tuning). They do, however, make a great baseline for you to work with, saving you time to get the car running initially. Once you tweak 'em, it becomes <insert your name here> chips. More baseline "chips" for the masses (a good thing).
[quote]Originally posted by Russ Murphy:
<strong>My guess is that in Rage's case it would be letting him do donuts in all of your cars.
</strong><hr></blockquote>I'll bring my own CV joints =).
03-05-2002, 07:58 PM
#22
Racer
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The old Huntley 'V' (for rich mixture dip in the mid range looking like a 'V') was fixed with the New ARC2-HR-R2 and now it is called the SFR 'V' since they have continued to sell the obsolete ARC2-A which we abandoned over 2 years ago.
03-05-2002, 08:37 PM
#24
Racer
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Thanks to everyone for the excellent discussion. As expected, several issues came up that I was not aware of, and hopefully this was beneficial to other board readers as well.
I have some time to decide which option to go with, but at least now I have a better idea of what my choices will be.
-MDW
I have some time to decide which option to go with, but at least now I have a better idea of what my choices will be.
-MDW
03-05-2002, 08:42 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
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You should follow <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/scripts/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=18&t=000814" target="_blank">this thread from the 951 forum</a> if you want to know more about cold start issues with these MAF conversion kits.
03-06-2002, 03:12 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
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HUntley Racing is telling you something that cannot be believed, not once was the "V" ever called the SFR "V".
We have no experience with the Fule curve that HUntley had issues with. A simple call to SFR, Split Second, or the Dyno Shop will confirm what I am saying.
SFR has had great experiences using the ARCII, our fuel mixtures are very even throughout the rpm range and we have not once had the over rich issues discussed by Derrek. We can back this up with fact, not jabs. Just like everything we do, we show the proof :-) Its on our site, for all to see...and even hear now :-)
For anyone that would like to exchange emails with any SFR MAF customer, please contact me...Derrek, your included, and I will send you a list of people that would love to trade thoughts on the kit :-)
Take Care!
We have no experience with the Fule curve that HUntley had issues with. A simple call to SFR, Split Second, or the Dyno Shop will confirm what I am saying.
SFR has had great experiences using the ARCII, our fuel mixtures are very even throughout the rpm range and we have not once had the over rich issues discussed by Derrek. We can back this up with fact, not jabs. Just like everything we do, we show the proof :-) Its on our site, for all to see...and even hear now :-)
For anyone that would like to exchange emails with any SFR MAF customer, please contact me...Derrek, your included, and I will send you a list of people that would love to trade thoughts on the kit :-)
Take Care!
03-06-2002, 03:15 AM
#27
Burning Brakes
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Oh, one other thing....I'll be printing a copy of this post topic, and faxing it to Split Second. I'm sure they would be interested. Afterall, maybe they are not aware they are selling "obsolete" ARCII units to the BMW group, Porsche group, various Asian groups.
I hope this helps Split Second relize their faults :-)
Take Care
I hope this helps Split Second relize their faults :-)
Take Care
03-06-2002, 03:28 AM
#28
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boy, you guys sure are bitter at each other, i didnt know it was so dog eat dog out in cali.
in any event we do appreciate the info both of your companies have been giving, i choose not to take sides as i would like to do business with you both, as long as the truth,and not bull**** sqabling come from you both thank you
p.s. you guys should really talk this out and get over your differences
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
in any event we do appreciate the info both of your companies have been giving, i choose not to take sides as i would like to do business with you both, as long as the truth,and not bull**** sqabling come from you both thank you
p.s. you guys should really talk this out and get over your differences
<img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
03-06-2002, 04:02 AM
#29
Burning Brakes
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No problem exchanging ideas, I post the facts, and can back'em up. I'm sure Derrek has his own input...so be it. It doesn't need to get ugly...lets just keep the jabs down...like the mention of the SFR "V", that was silly, it was never an issue with our kit. Derrek knows that. Call the dyno shop in santee, ask for Mark, ask about the huntley V, its that simple. Again, its just the facts.
03-06-2002, 04:50 AM
#30
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I guess someone is getting desperate? This is the second or third post where you are taking potshots at us. Isnt that right Derrek?
Unlike yourself, we have not had any sort of tuning issues with the ARC2. We can dial in perfect air/fuel ratios. No overly rich midrange issues. If there was, we wouldnt be using it!
Unlike yourself, we have not had any sort of tuning issues with the ARC2. We can dial in perfect air/fuel ratios. No overly rich midrange issues. If there was, we wouldnt be using it!