Tovrin

one thing after another, I just finished replacing my alternator, and am getting my shaved rear bumper painted (thanks Elliot) prior to this weekends meet in Orlando, and this morning something new and devastating happens.

i go to pull out of my complex and I grab first gear a little hard as i cross the hiway to head to work and i hear it pop and i thought it bounced out of gear or something as i coasted to a stop in the median of the hiway.

symptoms:

clutch pedal feels right, i get resistance when pushing it in as i normally would.

no grip in any gear, i can shift gears with the car running and clutch released without resistance or gear rattle between shifting. not sure if its spinning the transmission but i do not believe so.

what have i broken, or how can i troubleshoot the issue further?

Mark944na86

My guess would be ring and pinion failure.

Do you mean you can change gears without depressing the clutch pedal with the engine running?

KuHL 951

Pull the rubber inspection cover on the transaxle and see if the TT shaft can be turned by hand with the clutch engaged; may sure the TT coupling splines aren't sheared on the shaft or TA side. If you can turn the TT shaft more than an 1/8" with the clutch engaged; your clutch disc is toast.

If you turn the rear wheels in gear and they travel long before the input shaft on the TA turns your R&P is shot.

JohnKoaWood

I'll go in for a rubber centered clutch disk failure.... R&P on an 87 N/A shouldn't be the issue unless you had MAJOR slop in there, already had a spring centered clutch, and dropped the clutch at 4K or so trying to do a burn out.... if the car started to move, and all of the sudden POP no move no more... I would look to the inspection port on the bell housing first, look for rubber bits, if you se ANY rubber pieces in the bell housing it is time for a new clutch!

If you see rubber bits, the POP you heard was the "limp home" metal tabs breaking off your old clutch disk... at least that is what it was on my 88 when the rubber center failed, and the metal tabs sheared off.... I actually had melted rubber all over the inside of the bell housing when we got it all pulled appart...

IF it is your R&P, a replacement trans is probably cheaper than a replacement R&P... and makes for a nice weekend under your car...

OH CRAP, just remembered one more thing to look at.... make sure your CV joints still have all the bolts.... they have been known to back out and when one CV becomes unbolted from the trans you will not go anywhere.... as the unbolted one will now just free spin...

Cass944

yeah i think your 2 best best are the ruber center clutch (if you have one) gave up. OR one of your axles is no longer bolted to the trans/hub.

the axle is easy to check. just go lay behind the car and see if you can wiggle it around on either end.

as for the clutch. depending on if its completely torn away from the outer section of the disk, you should be able to put the car in gear then push the car down your driveway. if it moves more than like 6 inches in gear then the clutch is no longer connecting the engine to the trans.

Tovrin

i mean to say that my foot was not on the clutch and i could easily shift between all gears with the engine running.

when i started i didnt do a 4k clutch drop, more like a 1500-2k drop, the pulled forward hard enough to make it to the center median of the road but that was it. and the pop felt more like what happens when you grab the shifter and accidently pull it out of gear before you have the clutch engaged when shifting under power. (hopefully im not the only idiot who does that occassionally).

I just got off the phone with Elliot (drifta944) and he said it sounds like either the rubber center clutch or the CV bolts as well.

am so hoping its the CV bolts, as i really have been excited over this weekends meet, and really dont want to show up in a Hyundai!!!!

I will have more information tonight after work, thank you all for the quick replies.

Mark944na86

I really can't see how losing your CV bolts could allow you to shift gears with the engine running without disengaging clutch.

JohnKoaWood

A non LSD car will free wheel ONE side if the CV isn't connected... almost perfectly mimmics a dead clutch disk... only way to tell for sure is to check.

R&P usually is accompanied by BAD grinding noises (bits of the gears being chewed up / thrashing the rest of the gearbox) an oil drain will show if there are bits of gear though...

tifosiman

How many miles are on the car?

My first inclination is to think it's the r&p.

However, I'd look at things in order of least effort to verify. Meaning:

1. Crawl under there and check to see that the CV's are all bolted in and appear to be OK.
2. If CV's are OK, then jack up the front of the car and check the clutch thru the inspection port.
3. If neither of the above finds the problem, then drain the transaxle fluid and check for metal granola bits.

Mark944na86

I understand that, but how is that going to allow changing gears without some serious crunching with the drivetrain spinning the gears? Just because the wheels aren't spinning, doesn't mean the gears aren't...

944Ross

The clutch tabs are pretty darn stout, I'd be surprised if anything like normal driving could break them clean off. And the broken bits would likely lock up the clutch. Being able to shift without the clutch makes me suspect a broken coupler or sheared splines, maybe even a broken input shaft? If the car can be rolled easily, surely not a r&p.

Tovrin

the car has roughly 120k miles, havent a clue how old the clutch is.

and youve basically given me the same gameplan as Elliot and everyone else, JohnKoa, you've given me the most hope, lol, because it really is mimic-ing a dead clutch right now, there are no grinding noises of any sort, and it really did feel like the transmission was spinning when i moved the shifter around, but that could have been wishful thinking on my part, i was near panic this morning

I should know tonight for sure what happened.

V2Rocket

put the car in neutral, put the handbrake off and try to push the car. if it goes and then stops or hops, theres chunks of pinion gear in there..

Tovrin

the rolls easily and normally, i had to push it back into my parking space, it was running and in gear and pushed without noise or resistance.

V2Rocket

whew