944V8inDFW

Is there ANY data to back the claim that these are better or as good as quality bolt as the factory, strength or strech wise? Cool on the locking but material is important.

Last round of Stage 8 bolts I bought the quality had definately changed from the previous rolled threads to a rough screw machine cut.

alxdgr8

In for 1 set.

Thanks again Dan!

ideola

@944V8inDFW
Grade 12.9 NOT grade 8 - 4130 Steel good for 1100 ft lb of torque per bolt

@alex
Thanks Alex, I'll add you to the list!

Rogue_Ant

Looks like I need to get a bigger torque-wrench...

944V8inDFW

So i take that as a no to real data.

i never mentiond grade 8

genikz

Have you seen how little of the threads actually grab the "cup" on the transaxle?

Once they are threaded into the "cup", nearly all the force they take is in shear. To me, it is far more likely that they back out due to vibration, rather than shear. Maybe if all but two fell out, you could shear the remaining two.

I had nearly all literally fall out at track (unbeknownst to me) and I finished the day no problem. The remaing one or two fell out on the tow home and my CV joint was gone. If all 6 are in place, I personally feel you'll shread the trans before the bolts holding the CVs to the it.

Then again, I'm not running a V8...

samluke

The joint design relies on clamping/ friction between the two flange surfaces, just like a clutch. The joint is preloaded by the stretch in the bolt generated by the torque. If the clamping force is not right, then the joint can move, and then things start to loosen up. The bolts only take a shear load if the joint is already moving, and by that time its too late. There are designs that use fitted bolts or dowel pins, but that not the case here.

In over 10 years of racing Turbo's, some with high horsepower I have only lost a driveshaft once, and that was due to incorrect Torque tightening on my part. I used the torque value for an 8.8 forgetting that factory bolts are 12.9.

Its my belief that with factory bolts (which are re-usable) and lubricated threads, correctly torqued then they don't back out.

Having said that, this is not a bad insurance policy. I wirelock and its a pain in the ***.

Tom M'Guinn

I thought his answer was fairly responsive to your question, since you asked at least in part about strength. At any rate, it looks like we're going to have a ton of empirical data in the near future once people start installing their sets.

ideola

@944V8inDFW
I'm not an engineer or product developer, so I apologize if my answer was insufficient. If you tell me what kind of data you'd like to see, I will pass it on to Stage8. They have been unbelievably responsive to every question I've asked. I just need to know what you want to see. If you're asking, do we have data about these bolts on our cars, well, obviously, no we don't, because this is a brand new application for the 924-944-968 platform. Help me understand what concerns you have, and I'll do my best to get answers. Asking for "data" isn't very helpful...

ideola

Updated participant list moved to page 6.

jlturpin

Sign me up for one set.

samluke

I have a few specific questeions that I can't see answers to.

Supplier questions
1. Are the threads rolled or cut?
2. What is the tightening torque?
3. What is the ultimate torque, ie the Torque value that breaks the bolt?

The answers to the above will establish once and for all if these bolts generate a better or worse clamp than factory, ie the primary function of the bolt.

Our cars Question
4. On the late cars with the aluminum trailings, is there enough room in the stub axle cavity to get the plates and spring clips in?

ideola

@samluke
These are great questions, I'll work on getting answers to today. Regarding the alu trailing arms, I'll have to mosey on out to the garage and take a peek at the setup on my wide body project, which has late alu arms. But from what I recall off hand, the CV joint is well outside of the cavity to begin with. I'll verify, as my memory ain't what it used to be

ideola

I'm making an executive decision to close this group buy to further participants after Midnight EST Friday 22 Jan 2010. Given the response, I fully expect we'll be running another group buy before race season commences

I am strongly recommending the use of the D-style retainers and the spring clips. Unless I hear from you differently, this is what I will be ordering. It would be extremely helpful to not have to handle different permutations of retainers and clips, so unless you have a burning need for the teardrop retainer or E-clip, I'm hoping we can all agree to use the D-style and spring clip.

Today I am expecting to have the figures for shipping as well as extra bolt packs, extra retainer packs and extra clip packs. As soon as I have those numbers, I'll post them so you can each decide if you want extras of anything before I start invoicing.

ideola

Here are two photos from my wide body. Note that the outer stub axles are not yet installed, so the CV joint in this case is further inside the cavity than it normally would be. You can see that there is ample room for accessing the bolts on the rear side of the cavity. In my experience, you have to rotate the joints 180° anyway to get the bolts in, so I don't believe the retainers will add that much more difficulty than the bolts themselves. Although, my hands and fingers are fairly...svelt? nimble? slim? Might be a bit more challenging for those of you with gorilla paws.


Certainly appears to be a lot easier than trying to safety wire in there!!!