installing the front of a 997 to my 968 - need advice on plastics - new photos up...
10-21-2010, 02:17 PM
#16
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my car will have to go off the road for a couple of weeks to do the install.
i'll have the time this winter in Florida.
thanks for the compliments.
no doubt, spending 20 or 30 grand on a 944 and then God forbid, one day you try to sell it........
i'll have the time this winter in Florida.
thanks for the compliments.
no doubt, spending 20 or 30 grand on a 944 and then God forbid, one day you try to sell it........
03-18-2013, 06:01 PM
#17
Rainman
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with a 968 rear bumper, i could see some potential here
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3683774509.html
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/3683774509.html
03-18-2013, 06:43 PM
#18
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i think somebody posted about this 944 a while back.
it's looking a bit hacked, and i'm sure that hooking up with the headlamps represents a challenge.
but it would be really cool to see that car finished.
i'm geting really excited about making the first one off ultra-light copy of my front valance.
and a set of composite fenders will be next. that's gonna be hell.
.
it's looking a bit hacked, and i'm sure that hooking up with the headlamps represents a challenge.
but it would be really cool to see that car finished.
i'm geting really excited about making the first one off ultra-light copy of my front valance.
and a set of composite fenders will be next. that's gonna be hell.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 03-18-2013 at 10:42 PM.
03-18-2013, 08:27 PM
#21
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thanks guys,
i'll post some more photos showing the curvature of the front nose from the top down (as it's not as extreme as the 997 valance below, or as flat as the 968)... i came up with something in between.... i'll post those in a few minutes.
if anyone is interested in how i got the lamps,
Devcon adhesive;
my first question is for you guys who have a basic knowledge of the substrates that i am working with and the adhesives that will make these two pieces bond properly... i am trying to determine if Devcon can be used as a substitute for 3M Duramix/Automix [automix is it's new name]... why am i asking ?? because Devcon adhesives come in larger tubes and cost LESS than Duramix which costs about 180 dollars per litre, and you all can imagine, that i am going to need quite a lot of this stuff... like, maybe 2 or 3 litres.
i am going to do a good job on this install and you will be able to hang from this bumper when it is completed, because i have a pretty solid plan in place overall.
well, it turned out both are rated at 3600 psi (on par w/ Boeing 787 grade epoxies).
if you guys want to produce extremely strong bonds between composite body panels, this stuff is incredible..... by scuffing both pieces with 40 grit and then drilling hundreds of holes and dimples in a honeycomb shape where the two panels met, i was able to join the two pieces to become one single structure.... the result is extremely strong (which i found out when i slammed into a large piece of tractor trailer re-cap doing about 90 mph last fall) i thought i'd mention it since one of the Rennlisters was talking about fabbing a rear belly pan.
this Devcon epoxy would work extremely well in joining pieces where strength and flexibility would be desired.
.
i'll post some more photos showing the curvature of the front nose from the top down (as it's not as extreme as the 997 valance below, or as flat as the 968)... i came up with something in between.... i'll post those in a few minutes.
if anyone is interested in how i got the lamps,
update; got my 993 Xenons back from the car electronics guy;
effin' amazing's all i can say. cost comparison:
buy the factory Xenon lamps at the dealer (includes the bulbs and igniters) = $5,600
add on the ballasts and wiring harness' @ $1,400 >> = ~ $7,000 (total)
instead i found a pair of Xenon's on ebay from a guy who did a huge group buy for the 993 guys wishing to change over to the Xenons and he ended up with some overstock. no porsche ballasts, no porsche wiring harness'... but the lampsets arrived at my house for $1,500 plus $40 shipping.
i was going to capitulate on getting the stock wiring harness and the ballasts until about a few moments later it dawns on me that if i want to run 6,000 k 35w lamps, i'll need a kit and then the Porsche wiring harnesses and ballasts aren't needed WIN !!!
so i brought the lamps in and told him i wanted the 6,000 k Phillips bulbs and call me when they're ready. he retofitted a complete kit and sealed up the new wiring harness;
6,000 k/35W are 100 % street legal,
total for new genuine Bosch fixtures + the phillips 6,000 k lamps/ballasts/igniters; $1,886.
leftovers; original bulbs and igniters (sold to a gentleman on the 993 forums who was happy to get them for low $$$).
effin' amazing's all i can say. cost comparison:
buy the factory Xenon lamps at the dealer (includes the bulbs and igniters) = $5,600
add on the ballasts and wiring harness' @ $1,400 >> = ~ $7,000 (total)
instead i found a pair of Xenon's on ebay from a guy who did a huge group buy for the 993 guys wishing to change over to the Xenons and he ended up with some overstock. no porsche ballasts, no porsche wiring harness'... but the lampsets arrived at my house for $1,500 plus $40 shipping.
i was going to capitulate on getting the stock wiring harness and the ballasts until about a few moments later it dawns on me that if i want to run 6,000 k 35w lamps, i'll need a kit and then the Porsche wiring harnesses and ballasts aren't needed WIN !!!
so i brought the lamps in and told him i wanted the 6,000 k Phillips bulbs and call me when they're ready. he retofitted a complete kit and sealed up the new wiring harness;
6,000 k/35W are 100 % street legal,
total for new genuine Bosch fixtures + the phillips 6,000 k lamps/ballasts/igniters; $1,886.
leftovers; original bulbs and igniters (sold to a gentleman on the 993 forums who was happy to get them for low $$$).
Devcon adhesive;
my first question is for you guys who have a basic knowledge of the substrates that i am working with and the adhesives that will make these two pieces bond properly... i am trying to determine if Devcon can be used as a substitute for 3M Duramix/Automix [automix is it's new name]... why am i asking ?? because Devcon adhesives come in larger tubes and cost LESS than Duramix which costs about 180 dollars per litre, and you all can imagine, that i am going to need quite a lot of this stuff... like, maybe 2 or 3 litres.
i am going to do a good job on this install and you will be able to hang from this bumper when it is completed, because i have a pretty solid plan in place overall.
well, it turned out both are rated at 3600 psi (on par w/ Boeing 787 grade epoxies).
if you guys want to produce extremely strong bonds between composite body panels, this stuff is incredible..... by scuffing both pieces with 40 grit and then drilling hundreds of holes and dimples in a honeycomb shape where the two panels met, i was able to join the two pieces to become one single structure.... the result is extremely strong (which i found out when i slammed into a large piece of tractor trailer re-cap doing about 90 mph last fall) i thought i'd mention it since one of the Rennlisters was talking about fabbing a rear belly pan.
this Devcon epoxy would work extremely well in joining pieces where strength and flexibility would be desired.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 03-21-2013 at 01:42 AM.
03-19-2013, 01:04 AM
#22
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
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well,
Porsche definitely made their cars faster when they put huge curves into the noses of their 996s and 997s....
but, for starters, the curve in the 997 is way too big for the 944/968. you see the 944 above. imo, he's not selling that
update well. that car was posted on CL a while back.... i'm not sure what discouraged him (panic?) from going
further out and finishing it. but, imo, he has some issues beginning with trying to keep too much of the 997's curve.
anyway, the solution ?
i was forced to extend the front of my car (add length) to find a compromise between the 968 bumper cover
and the 997 lower valance... but, my car is still a ways off from the extreme curved front of the 997. i went
about 1/3rd of the way. and there's really no way to go any further, or any reason to do so....
first i cut the bellypan of the 997 lower valance in 3 places.... the first cut right down the middle allowed for
about a 3" section to be removed from the front to the bottom (no worries, as we have plenty of epoxy resin)
and then re-attached the two pieces after unfolding it slightly to flatten the overall front section....
next i cut 2 long thin, pie sections out near the corners of the belly section of the 997 lower valance to allow
for the spoiler to be folded back inwards about 10 degrees at each corner.
the result ?
this gave the new 997 section more of a square shape, like our 944/968s.
after repairing the valance with epoxy and glass, it came time to join the 997 piece to the 968 structure.
this was actually quite scary because the Devcon sets up really fast. you have just a few minutes to inject it
between the 2 composites and pull everything down really tight as to fill in all the holes/dimples and allow the resin
to ooze through.... this surgery was done at about 50 degrees F as to extend the set up time slightly, and with the resin
coming straight out of the refrigerator. and unfortunately, it was a lot of toxic fumes added to a couple hours of terror
joining the two pieces.... but, i pulled them in as tight as humanly possible with clamps and the screw gun,
and as fate would have it, the results were spectacular.
everything looked great, but two pieces were still not integrated into a single workable shape....
study the photos of the front of my car.... and it becomes clear that; at the tip of the nose of the 968...
that is to say the point at the front of the header panel (the 968 doesn't really have a header panel)....
at it's furthest forward advance the top front/bridge of the nose (just before it dives down) is probably about
1~1 1/2 inches higher of the ground (than ideal) to fully pull off the new look. the front edge is just too high off the ground....
i imagine Porsche chose to do this in order to accommodate the large radiator.
but, short of tearing the 968 bumper cover off the car once again and reworking it, i decided to stop there....
(perhaps i can work that one in on the next 968/997 front valance
)
anyway,
this same point on the header panel also extends about 1~ 1 1/2 inches too far forward.
so, basically i was still screwed....
so it was time to put down some foam/aerospace glass beadfiller and sculpt the new nose
(the section below the driving lamps).... and then lay down the new surface glass/resins...
the front of the 944 and 968 are both sooooo flat (square) !! compare the front of a normal 968 to a late 911,
Coxster or CGT. when you attempt to change the front, you'll soon discover you're stuck flattening the
new stuff and adding more curve to the old stuff.... but, there's only so far you can go....
the result is the 968 is about 1 1/8" longer than before.
the shocking thing was the discovery that the car is actually faster (my luck can't be this good right ?) well, that was
exactly my thinking too. it wasn't something i was expecting. it kind of just happened on a top speed run i did on i-75 about
120 miles south of Atlanta in the wee hours on my way to Florida. but the difference was so pronounced, that i thought i
should mention it.... i was perplexed at first, but after i got to thinking it seemed reasonable to assume the air could be bending
a bit more around the car and less going under..... and this was allowing for less turbulance at my header panel than before....
so i just rolled with it. and the extra mile and a half of fuel economy isn't an accident either.
gotta be the new nose is doing it. 99% sure.
it ran like a rocket to the limiter in 5th (just south of 140 mph) and pulls strong in 6th all the way up to 163 mph.... the new
front valance is clearly pushing the air aside, and up and over with ease.... and the car feels totally planted (like a brick)
so, i'm thinking that 190 mph is going to be a breeze after the LS7 and faster transmission goes in and the front underside
reinforcement plate (aluminum belly pan) is installed.
i felt i couldn't do much about the extreme high forward placement of the top of the nose without really going to war,
so i left it....
and you can see the result is less than perfect. hopefully the results show i did the best i could with what i had to work with.
(the photo of the yellow 993 demonstrates what would be ideal).
btw, that was before the fenders were done... so, it's problably safe to say the car will be a bit slower now.
.
Porsche definitely made their cars faster when they put huge curves into the noses of their 996s and 997s....
but, for starters, the curve in the 997 is way too big for the 944/968. you see the 944 above. imo, he's not selling that
update well. that car was posted on CL a while back.... i'm not sure what discouraged him (panic?) from going
further out and finishing it. but, imo, he has some issues beginning with trying to keep too much of the 997's curve.
anyway, the solution ?
i was forced to extend the front of my car (add length) to find a compromise between the 968 bumper cover
and the 997 lower valance... but, my car is still a ways off from the extreme curved front of the 997. i went
about 1/3rd of the way. and there's really no way to go any further, or any reason to do so....
first i cut the bellypan of the 997 lower valance in 3 places.... the first cut right down the middle allowed for
about a 3" section to be removed from the front to the bottom (no worries, as we have plenty of epoxy resin
) and then re-attached the two pieces after unfolding it slightly to flatten the overall front section....
next i cut 2 long thin, pie sections out near the corners of the belly section of the 997 lower valance to allow
for the spoiler to be folded back inwards about 10 degrees at each corner.
the result ?
this gave the new 997 section more of a square shape, like our 944/968s.
after repairing the valance with epoxy and glass, it came time to join the 997 piece to the 968 structure.
this was actually quite scary because the Devcon sets up really fast. you have just a few minutes to inject it
between the 2 composites and pull everything down really tight as to fill in all the holes/dimples and allow the resin
to ooze through.... this surgery was done at about 50 degrees F as to extend the set up time slightly, and with the resin
coming straight out of the refrigerator. and unfortunately, it was a lot of toxic fumes added to a couple hours of terror
joining the two pieces.... but, i pulled them in as tight as humanly possible with clamps and the screw gun,
and as fate would have it, the results were spectacular.
everything looked great, but two pieces were still not integrated into a single workable shape....
study the photos of the front of my car.... and it becomes clear that; at the tip of the nose of the 968...
that is to say the point at the front of the header panel (the 968 doesn't really have a header panel)....
at it's furthest forward advance the top front/bridge of the nose (just before it dives down) is probably about
1~1 1/2 inches higher of the ground (than ideal) to fully pull off the new look. the front edge is just too high off the ground....
i imagine Porsche chose to do this in order to accommodate the large radiator.
but, short of tearing the 968 bumper cover off the car once again and reworking it, i decided to stop there....
(perhaps i can work that one in on the next 968/997 front valance
)anyway,
this same point on the header panel also extends about 1~ 1 1/2 inches too far forward.
so, basically i was still screwed....
so it was time to put down some foam/aerospace glass beadfiller and sculpt the new nose
(the section below the driving lamps).... and then lay down the new surface glass/resins...
the front of the 944 and 968 are both sooooo flat (square) !! compare the front of a normal 968 to a late 911,
Coxster or CGT. when you attempt to change the front, you'll soon discover you're stuck flattening the
new stuff and adding more curve to the old stuff.... but, there's only so far you can go....
the result is the 968 is about 1 1/8" longer than before.
the shocking thing was the discovery that the car is actually faster (my luck can't be this good right ?) well, that was
exactly my thinking too. it wasn't something i was expecting. it kind of just happened on a top speed run i did on i-75 about
120 miles south of Atlanta in the wee hours on my way to Florida. but the difference was so pronounced, that i thought i
should mention it.... i was perplexed at first, but after i got to thinking it seemed reasonable to assume the air could be bending
a bit more around the car and less going under..... and this was allowing for less turbulance at my header panel than before....
so i just rolled with it. and the extra mile and a half of fuel economy isn't an accident either.
gotta be the new nose is doing it. 99% sure.
it ran like a rocket to the limiter in 5th (just south of 140 mph) and pulls strong in 6th all the way up to 163 mph.... the new
front valance is clearly pushing the air aside, and up and over with ease.... and the car feels totally planted (like a brick)
so, i'm thinking that 190 mph is going to be a breeze after the LS7 and faster transmission goes in and the front underside
reinforcement plate (aluminum belly pan) is installed.
i felt i couldn't do much about the extreme high forward placement of the top of the nose without really going to war,
so i left it....
and you can see the result is less than perfect. hopefully the results show i did the best i could with what i had to work with.
(the photo of the yellow 993 demonstrates what would be ideal).
btw, that was before the fenders were done... so, it's problably safe to say the car will be a bit slower now.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 03-21-2013 at 01:50 AM.
03-19-2013, 03:02 AM
#23
Three Wheelin'
Looks fantastic OD
Not surprised by the aero gain but would never have imagined it happening till you did this, as the cars are pretty slippery anyway. Makes sense. Car looks totally factory with your mods which is about as high a praise as I can give any mod
peace
Punky
Not surprised by the aero gain but would never have imagined it happening till you did this, as the cars are pretty slippery anyway. Makes sense. Car looks totally factory with your mods which is about as high a praise as I can give any mod
peace
Punky
10-04-2013, 05:35 AM
#29
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Those two porsches are in love. 
I wonder if their child will be V8
I wonder if their child will be V8
12-27-2013, 11:41 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Here's a question. I love the look of the classic impact bumpers, especially the way it protrudes from the body yet still remains relatively flush with the body. I like it even more than the turbo-style! Is there a bumper, maybe made of fiberglass, that could be had, should that unfortunate day come, that the bumper gets indented or damaged to the point of disrepair and still keep the "impact bar-thing"?