is torquing *that* important?
01-09-2003, 07:24 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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is torquing *that* important?
hey I'm just about to do my first oil change and I was wondering if torquing the drain plug or even the filter to the correct specs (36ftlb and 14ftlb respectively) really matters that much? I dont have a torque wrench...
01-09-2003, 08:14 PM
#2
Race Car
I'd say torquing stuff to spec is a really good idea if the parts are moving, rotating, etc. These don't move but the engine vibrates quite a bit. If you trust your feel then go for it. I always get the oil drain plug nice and snug [you can feel if you're doing it too tight] and the oil filter gets 1/4 turn after the contact surfaces mate. Never had a problem.
01-09-2003, 08:27 PM
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make sure you replace the gasket, crush ring on the drain plug then tighten until it makes contact then additional 30 to 45 degrees rotation. I tighten filters to 3/4 turn after contact.
01-09-2003, 08:40 PM
#4
Done With Sidepatch
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I haven't used the torque wrench on oil changes either...I use the "feel" method...14 ft/lbs isn't much at all and you should be very aware of over torquing aluminum...It's very easy to tighten too much resulting in stripped threads...
Don't ask how I know...
Don't ask how I know...
01-09-2003, 09:26 PM
#5
No it is not necessary with common sense for this.
If this is your first oil change, make sure the old washer is removed. Sometimes, it stays on the drain pan and some may think it fell in the oil bucket. I've just lubricate the seal of the filter, like with any car, and tighten the filter as indicated above. Always can check after fill oil if there are any leaks.
If this is your first oil change, make sure the old washer is removed. Sometimes, it stays on the drain pan and some may think it fell in the oil bucket. I've just lubricate the seal of the filter, like with any car, and tighten the filter as indicated above. Always can check after fill oil if there are any leaks.
01-09-2003, 09:57 PM
#6
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I would agree. I tighten the filter by hand. But, I do torque the plug (can actually get a torque wrench on that).
I'm no mechanical engineer, but I figure Porsche payed a whole bunch of these guys to calculate every nut/bolt on the car. Wherever possible, I set them with the torque wrench. I figure millions of miles and millions of dollars spent on product development is probably a little smarter than me.
I'm no mechanical engineer, but I figure Porsche payed a whole bunch of these guys to calculate every nut/bolt on the car. Wherever possible, I set them with the torque wrench. I figure millions of miles and millions of dollars spent on product development is probably a little smarter than me.
01-10-2003, 10:34 AM
#7
Race Director
Regarding the filter: it's your choice: most people have no problems tightening it by feel.
As for the plug: I'd say definately torque it: if anything, it will give you peace of mind. (Instead of asking: did I tighten it too tight? Not tight enough? Am I leaking oil as a result?)
A good torque wrench will run you under $100.
Just my $0.42.
-Z.
As for the plug: I'd say definately torque it: if anything, it will give you peace of mind. (Instead of asking: did I tighten it too tight? Not tight enough? Am I leaking oil as a result?)
A good torque wrench will run you under $100.
Just my $0.42.
-Z.
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01-10-2003, 11:25 AM
#8
Race Director
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dave Swanson:
<strong>
I'm no mechanical engineer, but I figure Porsche payed a whole bunch of these guys to calculate every nut/bolt on the car. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well I am a mechanical engineer and have calculated torque requirements for various bolted joints in Turbine Engines. You know what??
I bet NOBODY calculated the Torque for the drain plug. It is probably just from a standards book out there some where. There are plenty of aerospace joints that Don't go through bolt torque analysis.
Point is if you want to torque it fine. Otherwise the "feel" method works nicely.
Now if you are doing an engine rebuild torque specs are important since some joints are critical with respect to vibration, temperature, and external loading.
When doing headgaskets, crankcases, oil pans, cam housings, etc ALWAYS torque to spec and USE the sequence in the manual.
HTH <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />
<strong>
I'm no mechanical engineer, but I figure Porsche payed a whole bunch of these guys to calculate every nut/bolt on the car. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well I am a mechanical engineer and have calculated torque requirements for various bolted joints in Turbine Engines. You know what??
I bet NOBODY calculated the Torque for the drain plug. It is probably just from a standards book out there some where. There are plenty of aerospace joints that Don't go through bolt torque analysis.
Point is if you want to torque it fine. Otherwise the "feel" method works nicely.
Now if you are doing an engine rebuild torque specs are important since some joints are critical with respect to vibration, temperature, and external loading.
When doing headgaskets, crankcases, oil pans, cam housings, etc ALWAYS torque to spec and USE the sequence in the manual.
HTH <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />
01-10-2003, 01:55 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
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When using the "feel" method, it may help to think about what a torque spec really means... "14 foot lbs." means a force of 14 lbs on a wrench that spans one foot from the center of the bolt to the center of your hand... so if your wrench is that long, push on it with about 3/4 the force you'd have to exert to hold up a 20 lb. bag of dog food. 8) If the wrench is longer, push with proportionally less force; if shorter, more force.
Yes, I use a torque wrench for wheels, but not for drain plugs or filters. Most filters will tell you how far to turn them after first contact (printed on box or filter, or both) in terms of a fraction of a turn. "Good and snug" has always worked for me on drain plugs. Do take note of _what_ material the plug is being threaded into; a steel plug going into an aluminum pan is a recipe for a trainwreck if you overtighten....
Jim, "To hell with the Fountain of Youth; what we really need is a Fountain of Smart."
Yes, I use a torque wrench for wheels, but not for drain plugs or filters. Most filters will tell you how far to turn them after first contact (printed on box or filter, or both) in terms of a fraction of a turn. "Good and snug" has always worked for me on drain plugs. Do take note of _what_ material the plug is being threaded into; a steel plug going into an aluminum pan is a recipe for a trainwreck if you overtighten....
Jim, "To hell with the Fountain of Youth; what we really need is a Fountain of Smart."
01-10-2003, 03:29 PM
#12
Race Director
I agree with Jim on the meaning of "feel" 
About wheels. Do use a torque wrench with wheels.
In the days of steel wheel. "Tight" was good enough. Now a days you can damage aluminium wheels if you over tighten them. Of course under tighten can mean they come loose on the track.
This is not even to mention the Aluminium Nuts!!
About wheels. Do use a torque wrench with wheels.
In the days of steel wheel. "Tight" was good enough. Now a days you can damage aluminium wheels if you over tighten them. Of course under tighten can mean they come loose on the track.
This is not even to mention the Aluminium Nuts!!
01-10-2003, 05:13 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
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I'm glad M758 has brought some genuine M.E. knowlwedge to the discussion , along with some horse sense. I also doubt that anyone ever actually calculated the torque spec for the drain plug. And in so many cases, trying to torque a fastener is like trying to **** up a rope. By the time you add an extension or, heaven forbid a swivel, to the torque wrench the reading you get at the wrench is completely invalid. But to have a "feel" for it requires some experience. I would suggest that you use the torque wrench on the drain plug once or twice so that you can develop a sense of what the proper torque "feels" like. The filter, on the other hand would be hard to do. The rule of thumb on spin-on filters is "hand tight only", but the problem on our cars is that you can't get your hand on the filter well enough to tighten it much at all. So I use the filter wrench to just snug it. After the engine temp has cycled up and down a couple of times, I recheck to make sure it's not leaking.
01-10-2003, 05:25 PM
#15
Professor of Pending Projects
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If I was working on an american car, the hell with torque values...
On the Porsche, with so many parts made out of aluminum, and after an oilpan repair
I use a torque wrench.
Better safe that $orry
I have two torque wrench; one for small bolts (6ft-lbs up to 20lbs-ft) and one for larger one (up to 150ft-lbs
On the Porsche, with so many parts made out of aluminum, and after an oilpan repair
I use a torque wrench.Better safe that $orry
I have two torque wrench; one for small bolts (6ft-lbs up to 20lbs-ft) and one for larger one (up to 150ft-lbs