M758

944 spec is cheapest way to have a reliable German car in NASA. We run close to GTS1 speeds, at at 2600lbs with driver are heavier, but competition is good. Texas is starting to build some 944 spec cars. Our rules are restrictive, but that is an attempt to keep costs down and level playing field as much as possible.

onefastviking

Thats great to hear ! So I am not totally out of my mind and can do this.
Your car, being a 924S is lighter than mine to start but I can work around that.
My goal is really to keep costs down and make a car that is lighter instead of more hp. I figure my targets shouldn't be too far off. It would be fun to get it into GTS2 first and see how I do there and then do a little more to the car and jump to GTS3.

I havn't raced in a couple years now but I do get out on the track pretty regularlly still so hopefully I won't be too far off the pace. Even if I am slower I have no problem working on my driving skills, that is one area that everyone can always get better ! - After all, Shumi and Tiger still have coaches for a reason.

M758

Cookies and no headlights. There was a post on 944spec.org about the weight of headlights. I think they were 16lbs or something complete with everything. If you want light weight headlights just put the lights back in and make manual mounts. This saves the weight of the motor and cross bar which is like 10lbs or something.
Here are some weights of removed stuff from a 944 spec build

Pulling off stuff from Steve's '88 924S yesterday and weigh the parts on a hanging digital luggage scale (ymmv)

headlight assembly:
headlight motor - 4.7 lbs.
headlight bracket assemblies & center bar - 6.5 lbs.
headlights, headlight buckets, wiring, attachment brackets, shims, screws & bolts all tossed into a bag and weigh - 10.4 lbs.

heater core assembly:
blower motor - 3.1 lbs.
plastic blower motor cover - 0.3 lbs.
heater core = 1.8 lbs.
lower assembly - 3.9 lbs.
piece of rubber installation between lower assembly and firewall - 1.5 lbs.

charcoal canister - 3.6 lbs.

shiners780

Absolutely. My 951 is 2660 race weight (with driver and fuel) with stock body panels and all glass except doors. That puts me right at the limit of GTS3 at 11.1 on DOT's.

Obviously, once you get into body work and lexan windows the costs go way up.

onefastviking

I looked closely at 944 Spec and it almost got me, but I am thinking I can still be reliable just by dropping the weight and keeping power mods basic.
944 Spec is a great class and I know a few that have and are building them, I just wanted something a little faster. I already have a Spec Miata and the Spec 944 would kind of just be the same thing.
Besides, the thought of beating 911's and 944 Turbos in my normally aspirated 44 sounds like way too much fun !

I could just sell this car as it is and let someone build it as a 944 Spec car, it really is almost there anyway, but I really like challenges so now I must build it into a GTS car.
After I build it and race it a for a season I will probably put it up for sale, too many cars and not enough time to drive them all.

Lemming

Just remember, my car is competitive in GTS3 because it has a 968 engine stuffed in it. If you run a stock 944 that pushes out 145 rwhp, you and car will need to weigh 1,597 to get to 11.01

V2Rocket

how the heck do you get your car to make 145 whp? are cams allowed in spec?

Lemming

According to the 44Cup website, that is the high-end of what they are seeing on 2.5L engines. I was giving him the benefit of have the highest output, with lower rwhp, he will have to be even lighter.

M758

Cams are not allowed in 944 spec. However I do think that with a very nice 944 NA 8 valve build you can get 145 whp with non-spec legal mods. Should not be that hard as strong spec build is 138-139 hp. That is with a stock chip headers and 10.5: 1 max compression. GTS has no rules other than weight and actual hp so making 5-6 more not is that hard. Even if will cost $1000 to $1500 more than a 944 spec legal motor for the chips/headers/dyno time/cam etc.

onefastviking

Yes, I know. I doubt I can see 1597 lbs, my thought was after going to GTS2 then I can lighten more , maybe rebuild for a little more power, and add slicks which changes power to weight to 12.0 to 1 for GTS3. That should put me close, I will just have to drive well enough to make up the difference.

As others have stated, since I am not in Spec 944 I can add higher compression, bigger pistons, cams, etc as needed to get to 150 or higher hp. My motor was already pretty strong, 150 rwhp shouldn't be to big of a jump for it.
Of course I could just add a 968 motor .......

onefastviking

FYI - 2 years ago at Mid Ohio Nationals I saw a couple of Spec 944's hitting 147 rwhp - not sure how legal they were.

josephsc

There's an old spreadsheet that's been floating around that I find useful -- though some of the numbers are suspect or unverified. A rennlister with an '86 951 put it together a few years ago. It might be handy for weight reference:


The file is attached, but it should be renamed *.xls (I had to change it to *.txt to fool the attachment manager).

Lemming

IMO you should stick to GTS2, you won't have the HP to run down the straights with the GTS3 front runners, even if you got the cars weight down to 1600.

Carl Picelle has done very well running a lightweight 944 against the heavier 968s in GTS2 in the NASA Great Lakes Region.


OF COURSE - if you want to drop a 968 engine in your car, I have one for sale !!!!

Legoland951

An area to improve (though illegal for spec) from the spec car is the rear glass hatch, which weighs more than 50 pounds. The fiberglass fenders didn't feel much lighter than the stock but the hood made a bit of difference. Cutting the spare tire well metal in front of it can save you another 30+ pounds if you replace with aluminum plate.

Lemming

I will be doing this one soon, in addition to weight loss, it should make dealing with the tranny a bit easier.