86 951 for sale ,what a mess
05-08-2002, 06:47 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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86 951 for sale ,what a mess
Stopped and looked at an 86 951 today, it was sitting in a vacant lot on a major highway with a for sale sign. Just jumped out long enough to get the phone # and call the guy. It looked cherry! He met me later to test drive the thing, and I noticed it had been repainted, paint looked great, but my 10 year old could've taped it off better. Strike 1, but no big deal. He opens it from the passenger side, the door lock on the driver's side is toast. Strike 2, but again no big deal. Interior: steering wheel has leather hanging off everywhere,left arm rest disattached, no cover on center console, cloth and vinyl seats in OK condition, typical cracks in dash, ***** missing off air sliders. Ok no big deal, won't even get a strike for that. Good news, OH BOY 89,000 miles! I pull it out on the highway and exit to take a few turns and hear a clunking from right rear, when turning right.....strike 3. Shifter feels like a chicken leg in a bowl of Jello...Strike 4. 4 Strikes but the car has potential, I'm still interested. Switch on the A/C, and nothing....bummer. Oil pressure gauge is pegged at all times...bummer. Still not enough to walk away, car has potential. Motor seems to run well, but I catch a whiff of an odd burning smell. Can't pinpoint it but figure I'll peek under the hood. We return and park it, and I ask a few ?'s. Last time belts were done? 3 years and over 50K ago. Hmmmmmmmmm.....not a stickler for preventative maintenance....not good. Look harder and right side aero thingys on rocker panel gone, both tail lights cracked. He then proceeds to tell me he's tired of working on this car, someone else can have the problems. I ask the price.......6K. Negotiation?...Not a cent. I thank him for his time and prepare to leave, and he throws in the clincher "Hey, it's a red Turbo, someone will pay 6K for it easy, as long as they don't know what I know"....and the worse thing is......He's right......never got around to opening the hood...
05-08-2002, 10:01 PM
#2
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It is heartbreaking to hear that one....I have had a few similar encounters:
I saw an 83 928 sitting on the side of the road and decided to take a look, got the number from the sign and gave the guy a call. "Yeah it is in great shape" he says as I am looking into the car and see that the interior has been stripped out, but sits in a large ball of mess in the trunk area.!! Strike 1 for me but lots of folks abandon their restoration or improvement projects for lack of cash/time whatever right.....? When he gets there to show the car I ask that he pop open the hood/doors, etc. The first thing that I notice is that the rear quarters and 1 of the front fenders are fiberglass plus an obvious but decent repaint of the rear end, BIG strike 2! I am still interested at this point only for the curiosity of it. When he starts the engine, which definitely sounded mean like it should for a second, I hear a REALLY LOUD SNAP and nothing good after that, the lower pulley(?) apparently fell out and the belt went flying out of the car shredded. I was laughing so hard that I almost peed myself. He still was revving the car and i'm yelling and laughing as loudly as I can for him to shut it down. He finally gets the idea as i'm jumping up and down flailing my arms like an idiot in front of the car!! After looking at that pulley bolt I had seen enough for even my curious mind, it was a sawed off bolt that had been jimmied on there to hold the pully. The last thing he said as I was already in my car and driving away was "I just put 1200 into the top end" ha ha i'm still laughing about that one.
I saw an 83 928 sitting on the side of the road and decided to take a look, got the number from the sign and gave the guy a call. "Yeah it is in great shape" he says as I am looking into the car and see that the interior has been stripped out, but sits in a large ball of mess in the trunk area.!! Strike 1 for me but lots of folks abandon their restoration or improvement projects for lack of cash/time whatever right.....? When he gets there to show the car I ask that he pop open the hood/doors, etc. The first thing that I notice is that the rear quarters and 1 of the front fenders are fiberglass plus an obvious but decent repaint of the rear end, BIG strike 2! I am still interested at this point only for the curiosity of it. When he starts the engine, which definitely sounded mean like it should for a second, I hear a REALLY LOUD SNAP and nothing good after that, the lower pulley(?) apparently fell out and the belt went flying out of the car shredded. I was laughing so hard that I almost peed myself. He still was revving the car and i'm yelling and laughing as loudly as I can for him to shut it down. He finally gets the idea as i'm jumping up and down flailing my arms like an idiot in front of the car!! After looking at that pulley bolt I had seen enough for even my curious mind, it was a sawed off bolt that had been jimmied on there to hold the pully. The last thing he said as I was already in my car and driving away was "I just put 1200 into the top end" ha ha i'm still laughing about that one.
05-08-2002, 10:28 PM
#3
Thinking outside da' bun...
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I wonder how many 951s are still running today. And I wonder how many will be sent to the automotive graveyard in 5yrs. They seem to be a dying breed or is it just me. The first 6 I looked at sounded like this guy's encounter before I finally found one that had been loved and cared for with a diaper and pacifier.
05-09-2002, 05:19 AM
#4
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Even the most meticulously cared-for older cars can suddenly develop serious problems for no other reason than their age.
A good friend of mine (TwinSpool - he posts on the Turbo message board) recently purchased a 951. I went with him to the LA area to pick up the car and drive it home.
It was (and is) beautiful. Perfect body, perfect paint, perfect interior, and perfectly running. All service records from "date of birth" to the present came with the car. This one was NOT abused and was REGULARLY serviced and was treated like the automotive gem it is.
About two weeks ago, his turbo stopped boosting. All at once; no warning; just no more boost.
So he dove in and pulled it apart (he is very mechanically competent) and found the culprit.
There are three bolts inside the airbox that anchor the airbox in place. None of these bolts have lockwashers. One of them managed to work loose and got drawn into the air-intake that leads - you guessed it - directly to the turbocharger. The bolt did a great job of grinding all the compressor blades completely off before lodging itself permanently in place and jamming the turbocharger solid as a rock. This all happened, apparently, in a very few seconds and with absolutely no warning.
"Fortunately" he was planning on doing a turbo upgrade anyway - this just hastened the date a tad <grin>.
The lesson to be learned: Things break. Older things break more often. Scheiss passiert!
--Vince
A good friend of mine (TwinSpool - he posts on the Turbo message board) recently purchased a 951. I went with him to the LA area to pick up the car and drive it home.
It was (and is) beautiful. Perfect body, perfect paint, perfect interior, and perfectly running. All service records from "date of birth" to the present came with the car. This one was NOT abused and was REGULARLY serviced and was treated like the automotive gem it is.
About two weeks ago, his turbo stopped boosting. All at once; no warning; just no more boost.
So he dove in and pulled it apart (he is very mechanically competent) and found the culprit.
There are three bolts inside the airbox that anchor the airbox in place. None of these bolts have lockwashers. One of them managed to work loose and got drawn into the air-intake that leads - you guessed it - directly to the turbocharger. The bolt did a great job of grinding all the compressor blades completely off before lodging itself permanently in place and jamming the turbocharger solid as a rock. This all happened, apparently, in a very few seconds and with absolutely no warning.
"Fortunately" he was planning on doing a turbo upgrade anyway - this just hastened the date a tad <grin>.
The lesson to be learned: Things break. Older things break more often. Scheiss passiert!
--Vince
05-09-2002, 03:33 PM
#5
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Before I bought my S - I looked at a 87' N/A locally. It was on a car lot. They sell mostly stuff like BMW's, Mercedes, Volkswagon and they even had a Puma. I knew I was in the wrong place when I saw he was trying to sell a Mercedes with this awesome ground effects package that had, get this.....750,000 Klms. That is pretty darn high, even for Mercedes.
Anywho - the 944 was gray with black leather interior. The seats were all ripped and the dash was falling apart. It had 187,000 Klms, needed a back rim and the hand brake didn't work. When asked if the A/C worked - he replied, "Don't know, never tried it". Don't ya love guys who sell cars, but have no clue as to what works and what doesn't? This had pretty rough paint and the engine was really grimy and dusty. Now the clincher - he wanted $15,000 Canadian for it.
I then went and looked a very nice 83 N/A. Higher Klms, but in perfect condition. The fella just bought it from "a little old lady" and had no service records or anything. Asking price? $18,000 Canadian. What are these people thinking?
I would NEVER - I repeat NEVER try and sell a car that I had no clue about. Everyone knows at least one person who "knows cars", yet they stand there in front of you saying, "I don't know - I'm not sure", etc, etc. Step aside sir and let someone who knows cars sell this for you!!
The absolute worst thing is when you goto a dealership where they sell the type of car you drive and you talk to a salesman and he has no clue about the cars he sells. To the average person, he/she may seem educated - but I was once at the Suzuki dealership - buying some parts - and I got talking with a salesman while waiting. I own a Suzuki Sidekick and know enough about them. I'm asking him things like, "So, is the newer model Sidekick going to have the 1.6 or the 1.8 Ltr engine?". He just looks at me. I asked why the side mirrors on the Sidekick don't fold in, yet they fold in on the Swift. I said that it makes more sense that the FWD Suzuki should have collapseable side mirrors for driving in the woods, as opposed to the Swift. His reply - "Wow, I didn't even know the Swift's mirrors did that!!".
Maybe I'm a stickler for detail, but if you sell cars - you should know cars!!
944S Boyeee
Anywho - the 944 was gray with black leather interior. The seats were all ripped and the dash was falling apart. It had 187,000 Klms, needed a back rim and the hand brake didn't work. When asked if the A/C worked - he replied, "Don't know, never tried it". Don't ya love guys who sell cars, but have no clue as to what works and what doesn't? This had pretty rough paint and the engine was really grimy and dusty. Now the clincher - he wanted $15,000 Canadian for it.
I then went and looked a very nice 83 N/A. Higher Klms, but in perfect condition. The fella just bought it from "a little old lady" and had no service records or anything. Asking price? $18,000 Canadian. What are these people thinking?
I would NEVER - I repeat NEVER try and sell a car that I had no clue about. Everyone knows at least one person who "knows cars", yet they stand there in front of you saying, "I don't know - I'm not sure", etc, etc. Step aside sir and let someone who knows cars sell this for you!!
The absolute worst thing is when you goto a dealership where they sell the type of car you drive and you talk to a salesman and he has no clue about the cars he sells. To the average person, he/she may seem educated - but I was once at the Suzuki dealership - buying some parts - and I got talking with a salesman while waiting. I own a Suzuki Sidekick and know enough about them. I'm asking him things like, "So, is the newer model Sidekick going to have the 1.6 or the 1.8 Ltr engine?". He just looks at me. I asked why the side mirrors on the Sidekick don't fold in, yet they fold in on the Swift. I said that it makes more sense that the FWD Suzuki should have collapseable side mirrors for driving in the woods, as opposed to the Swift. His reply - "Wow, I didn't even know the Swift's mirrors did that!!".
Maybe I'm a stickler for detail, but if you sell cars - you should know cars!!
944S Boyeee
05-09-2002, 03:44 PM
#6
Deer Slayer
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Buying a used car from a private party or a dealer is always an education. I've owned about 20 different vehicles... all but 3 used... and I've had good luck. But in the course of acquiring those 17-odd used ones, I looked at, and rejected, hundreds more.
Seems like a lot of folks price Porsches without regard to their market value or condition. They think Porsche = $. Except it doesn't work that way. I looked at a 928 last year that the guy wanted 10K US for and before I had spent 5 minutes with the car I had identified at least that much in needed repairs, which was more than the car's market value was anyway. I walked. Somebody else bought it the next day.
Thaddeus
Seems like a lot of folks price Porsches without regard to their market value or condition. They think Porsche = $. Except it doesn't work that way. I looked at a 928 last year that the guy wanted 10K US for and before I had spent 5 minutes with the car I had identified at least that much in needed repairs, which was more than the car's market value was anyway. I walked. Somebody else bought it the next day.
Thaddeus
05-09-2002, 06:57 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
This car had potential, but he would have had to come waaay down on the price. However he knew someone will come along and see nothing but a shiny red 951, and be happy to plunk down the $6K....and he's right. Of course they don't know they'll sink another $6K in it to get it right, especially as soon as those 50k miles belts break!
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05-10-2002, 01:20 AM
#8
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It's amazing how people get when selling a car. They can tell you minute details about the car, model info, Porsche info.
Then when you test drive it:
The air conditioner doesn't work at all.
- Really, I never even used it.
The cruise control doesn't work.
- Really it used to.
The engine is leaking a tonne of oil
- But look at the car from this angle and look how beautiful she is.
They go from acting like a car nut with every car term under the sun, to acting incredibly stupid when you find something that neglected to tell you about. What's with that, every seller seems to do it.
But I love every 911 seller, they are so consistant:
Why is that smoke coming out?
- It just needs to warm up.
And the oil pans under your car?
- They all have a few small oil leaks.
Is that rust?
- I wouldn't even worry about that, just get a respray later on.
I'm not sure about this car...
- Look it's not a 928 or 944 or whatever. This is a 911.
What do I care, they'll learn soon enough.
Sam.
Then when you test drive it:
The air conditioner doesn't work at all.
- Really, I never even used it.
The cruise control doesn't work.
- Really it used to.
The engine is leaking a tonne of oil
- But look at the car from this angle and look how beautiful she is.
They go from acting like a car nut with every car term under the sun, to acting incredibly stupid when you find something that neglected to tell you about. What's with that, every seller seems to do it.
But I love every 911 seller, they are so consistant:
Why is that smoke coming out?
- It just needs to warm up.
And the oil pans under your car?
- They all have a few small oil leaks.
Is that rust?
- I wouldn't even worry about that, just get a respray later on.
I'm not sure about this car...
- Look it's not a 928 or 944 or whatever. This is a 911.
What do I care, they'll learn soon enough.
Sam.
05-10-2002, 01:46 AM
#9
Race Car
[quote]Originally posted by Bones944:
<strong>Interior: steering wheel has leather hanging off everywhere,left arm rest disattached, no cover on center console, cloth and vinyl seats in OK condition, typical cracks in dash, ***** missing off air sliders.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's a major joke of a car. It's like little kiddos have been crawling around inside and kicking the dash to pieces or something, totally uncalled for. A sight like this would send me running, I wouldn't want to know anything else about that car...big mechanical problems are one thing [often difficult for owners to disagnose/afford to fix] but little things like steering wheel cover and climate controls ***** missing is just ridiculous!!
<strong>Interior: steering wheel has leather hanging off everywhere,left arm rest disattached, no cover on center console, cloth and vinyl seats in OK condition, typical cracks in dash, ***** missing off air sliders.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's a major joke of a car. It's like little kiddos have been crawling around inside and kicking the dash to pieces or something, totally uncalled for. A sight like this would send me running, I wouldn't want to know anything else about that car...big mechanical problems are one thing [often difficult for owners to disagnose/afford to fix] but little things like steering wheel cover and climate controls ***** missing is just ridiculous!!
05-10-2002, 04:26 AM
#10
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Things can go the other way too .. WOLFRPI's current 951 was in the paper for $4300 there was not one redeaming feature about the car paint was only ok.. interior was tan and shot... but engine ran ok and it went for $2500 hell its' worth that much in parts..
Matt
Matt