Non Saratoga Sunroof?
09-12-2008, 12:56 AM
#31
The plexi one I have has a frame.
Originally Posted by carbonrevo
Bart- I'm not so sure that's accurate. The one pictured above is mine, and is glass. It weighs in at around 25lbs or so, and plexiglass/ aluminum frame wouldn't weigh that much.
Mine is framed, and glass.
Mine is framed, and glass.
And they both have the Saratoga logo on them with the model plate stuck on. They're both manual models so maybe that's what's confusing you.
09-12-2008, 03:56 AM
#32
Haven't seen that LOF logo for a long time
I used to build Classic Chevys (1955-57) back in the '80's and they used LOF manufactured glass.
LOF = Libby Owens Ford. That company is still in business ? (looks like they are now part of Pilkington group) I suppose they can help if someone want's these "Saratoga" tops.
As far as I know Saratoga is the only company that made glass sunroofs for our cars and that one sure as hell looks like a Saratoga top.
09-12-2008, 07:46 AM
#33
Drifting
The plexi one I have has a frame.
I'm not sure where the weight issue comes in. I have no idea what they weigh and don't really care. But the plexi one is lighter than the glass frameless one, I know that.
And they both have the Saratoga logo on them with the model plate stuck on. They're both manual models so maybe that's what's confusing you.
I'm not sure where the weight issue comes in. I have no idea what they weigh and don't really care. But the plexi one is lighter than the glass frameless one, I know that.
And they both have the Saratoga logo on them with the model plate stuck on. They're both manual models so maybe that's what's confusing you.
Both of yours have the saratoga logo? Both manual models? As far as I know, all saratogas I have seen work in manuals and powers. I've never seen any different raising points in either early vs late. I bought mine under the conditions it came OFF a manual top car.
Either way, if your early one looks like mine, and has the logo that is in Olli's post...it's glass. Period.
If you still say it's plexiglass, and it has that logo in the picture...go weigh it. I'd love to compare it's weight against mine. That'd certainly end this little discussion.
09-12-2008, 09:03 AM
#35
Drifting
Yea...not trying to be a dick about any of it, but of the many, many tops I have seen, never heard of a plexi version.
Now if they DID make them, I'd love to have it. Quite a considerable weight drop up top (even versus factory panel, plus you can still see out). However, I have never seen records of it.
Now if they DID make them, I'd love to have it. Quite a considerable weight drop up top (even versus factory panel, plus you can still see out). However, I have never seen records of it.
09-12-2008, 06:45 PM
#36
Geaux Tigers!
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Yea...not trying to be a dick about any of it, but of the many, many tops I have seen, never heard of a plexi version.
Now if they DID make them, I'd love to have it. Quite a considerable weight drop up top (even versus factory panel, plus you can still see out). However, I have never seen records of it.
Now if they DID make them, I'd love to have it. Quite a considerable weight drop up top (even versus factory panel, plus you can still see out). However, I have never seen records of it.
09-13-2008, 10:22 AM
#37
The weight comes into play in that, the framed ones aren't plexiglass (unless a cheap knock off). And yes, I would sure hope the "Plexiglass" one is lighter, if indeed it is plexiglass.
Both of yours have the saratoga logo? Both manual models? As far as I know, all saratogas I have seen work in manuals and powers. I've never seen any different raising points in either early vs late. I bought mine under the conditions it came OFF a manual top car.
Either way, if your early one looks like mine, and has the logo that is in Olli's post...it's glass. Period.
If you still say it's plexiglass, and it has that logo in the picture...go weigh it. I'd love to compare it's weight against mine. That'd certainly end this little discussion.
Both of yours have the saratoga logo? Both manual models? As far as I know, all saratogas I have seen work in manuals and powers. I've never seen any different raising points in either early vs late. I bought mine under the conditions it came OFF a manual top car.
Either way, if your early one looks like mine, and has the logo that is in Olli's post...it's glass. Period.
If you still say it's plexiglass, and it has that logo in the picture...go weigh it. I'd love to compare it's weight against mine. That'd certainly end this little discussion.
I had to have one of the latches reattached when it came loose from the plexi. Took it to a place that builds plexiglass display cases to have it "welded" back on.
I'll try to get some pics of both sometime. But yes, they both have the saratoga label and serial numbers and are both for manual cars. The glass one came with an '80 924 I own, the plexi one I bought cheap because of the loose latch.
IIRC, they started selling these around '78 so there could be variations of these you've never seen, since they were originally made for the 924 market. I can recall seeing them in catalogs in 1980 or so. Sold for around $239 I think.
YMMV.
09-13-2008, 04:53 PM
#38
Drifting
Explain the hardness of the "glass" then. Its not very thick, therefor plexiglass would NOT be that hard. Also explain the weight. Plexiglass versus glass isn't very heavy at all.
I know when I wrecked my S2, I had the Saratoga in it and a barb wire fence slid over the top. It resulted in a lot of scratches to the frame, but nome to the glass. A plexiglass top would have had gouges in it; pleaxiglass just isn't as hard as glass. And for arguments sake, the hatch glass on my S2 recieved scratches, yet the top didnt, and the barbs clearly slid over the top.
And my back two latches are adheseively stuck on, you can see it. Not sure on the fronts.
And explain the LOF and solid tempered logo. I know you can get tempered glass, but plexiglass? Please weigh your top.
I know when I wrecked my S2, I had the Saratoga in it and a barb wire fence slid over the top. It resulted in a lot of scratches to the frame, but nome to the glass. A plexiglass top would have had gouges in it; pleaxiglass just isn't as hard as glass. And for arguments sake, the hatch glass on my S2 recieved scratches, yet the top didnt, and the barbs clearly slid over the top.
And my back two latches are adheseively stuck on, you can see it. Not sure on the fronts.
And explain the LOF and solid tempered logo. I know you can get tempered glass, but plexiglass? Please weigh your top.
09-13-2008, 07:25 PM
#39
I couldn't care less what you have or what you believe Saragtoga manufactured over the last 30-some years.
I know what I have. Two Saratoga tops, one plexglass with a frame, one glass with no frame around it.
I'm sure if you googled it, you'd find the info you're looking for.
I know what I have. Two Saratoga tops, one plexglass with a frame, one glass with no frame around it.
I'm sure if you googled it, you'd find the info you're looking for.
09-13-2008, 07:33 PM
#41
Uh.....no.
I said I have a framed plexi Saratoga top.
That's all.
I also said I have a non-framed glass top.
You may want to re read my posts.
I was only trying to clarify that Saratoga DID make plex versions of the framed tops in a manual configuration.
I said I have a framed plexi Saratoga top.
That's all.
I also said I have a non-framed glass top.
You may want to re read my posts.
I was only trying to clarify that Saratoga DID make plex versions of the framed tops in a manual configuration.
09-13-2008, 07:53 PM
#42
Drifting
Alright, here's out posts that are relevant. Lets see what we have going on, shall we?
Ok, in this post, you clearly state that the plexi has a frame. You NEVER mentioned that YOUR plexi has a frame. So you are now saying, and we interpret, that ALL framed saratogas are plexi.
You still have not mentioned that YOURS is plexi and other framed ones are glass. We still have you saying, that all framed are plexi.
Here I mention twice, that logo. The LOF (Libby Owens Ford, which went to Pilkington PLC in the UK, now is a joint company with majority ownership by Nippon Sheet Glass of Japan) logo, WITH the solid tempered clearly displayed.
You again mention the label and numbers. No mention of the LOF/Solid Tempered though. Which, by this point...if it DIDN'T have it, I'd assume you would have said no.
I AGAIN mention the LOF and solid tempered.
You still beat around the bush and totally dodge the LOF/ Solid Tempered thing. How many times is it now?
I mention it ANOTHER time.
Yet you dodge this again.
Does your top have the LOF/ Solid tempered. If it doesn't, I would LOVE picture proof of this with a piece of paper saying "Bart" on it in the photo.
If it has the LOF/ Solid tempered...it's glass. End of debate.
I read your posts, found your bush beating...now fess up. Does it or does it not have the LOF/ Solid Tempered?
Simple question you had numerous opportunites to answer.
Geeze.
That's exactly what my glass one looks like.
The plexi one I have has a frame.
I'm not sure where the weight issue comes in. I have no idea what they weigh and don't really care. But the plexi one is lighter than the glass frameless one, I know that.
And they both have the Saratoga logo on them with the model plate stuck on. They're both manual models so maybe that's what's confusing you.
The plexi one I have has a frame.
I'm not sure where the weight issue comes in. I have no idea what they weigh and don't really care. But the plexi one is lighter than the glass frameless one, I know that.
And they both have the Saratoga logo on them with the model plate stuck on. They're both manual models so maybe that's what's confusing you.
The weight comes into play in that, the framed ones aren't plexiglass (unless a cheap knock off). And yes, I would sure hope the "Plexiglass" one is lighter, if indeed it is plexiglass.
Both of yours have the saratoga logo? Both manual models? As far as I know, all saratogas I have seen work in manuals and powers. I've never seen any different raising points in either early vs late. I bought mine under the conditions it came OFF a manual top car.
Either way, if your early one looks like mine, and has the logo that is in Olli's post...it's glass. Period.
If you still say it's plexiglass, and it has that logo in the picture...go weigh it. I'd love to compare it's weight against mine. That'd certainly end this little discussion.
Both of yours have the saratoga logo? Both manual models? As far as I know, all saratogas I have seen work in manuals and powers. I've never seen any different raising points in either early vs late. I bought mine under the conditions it came OFF a manual top car.
Either way, if your early one looks like mine, and has the logo that is in Olli's post...it's glass. Period.
If you still say it's plexiglass, and it has that logo in the picture...go weigh it. I'd love to compare it's weight against mine. That'd certainly end this little discussion.
The glass one is bronzed mirror reflective and has four mounting tabs that you lock into place. The plexi one is smoked and also has four mounting latches.
I had to have one of the latches reattached when it came loose from the plexi. Took it to a place that builds plexiglass display cases to have it "welded" back on.
I'll try to get some pics of both sometime. But yes, they both have the saratoga label and serial numbers and are both for manual cars. The glass one came with an '80 924 I own, the plexi one I bought cheap because of the loose latch.
IIRC, they started selling these around '78 so there could be variations of these you've never seen, since they were originally made for the 924 market. I can recall seeing them in catalogs in 1980 or so. Sold for around $239 I think.
YMMV.
I had to have one of the latches reattached when it came loose from the plexi. Took it to a place that builds plexiglass display cases to have it "welded" back on.
I'll try to get some pics of both sometime. But yes, they both have the saratoga label and serial numbers and are both for manual cars. The glass one came with an '80 924 I own, the plexi one I bought cheap because of the loose latch.
IIRC, they started selling these around '78 so there could be variations of these you've never seen, since they were originally made for the 924 market. I can recall seeing them in catalogs in 1980 or so. Sold for around $239 I think.
YMMV.
Explain the hardness of the "glass" then. Its not very thick, therefor plexiglass would NOT be that hard. Also explain the weight. Plexiglass versus glass isn't very heavy at all.
I know when I wrecked my S2, I had the Saratoga in it and a barb wire fence slid over the top. It resulted in a lot of scratches to the frame, but nome to the glass. A plexiglass top would have had gouges in it; pleaxiglass just isn't as hard as glass. And for arguments sake, the hatch glass on my S2 recieved scratches, yet the top didnt, and the barbs clearly slid over the top.
And my back two latches are adheseively stuck on, you can see it. Not sure on the fronts.
And explain the LOF and solid tempered logo. I know you can get tempered glass, but plexiglass? Please weigh your top.
I know when I wrecked my S2, I had the Saratoga in it and a barb wire fence slid over the top. It resulted in a lot of scratches to the frame, but nome to the glass. A plexiglass top would have had gouges in it; pleaxiglass just isn't as hard as glass. And for arguments sake, the hatch glass on my S2 recieved scratches, yet the top didnt, and the barbs clearly slid over the top.
And my back two latches are adheseively stuck on, you can see it. Not sure on the fronts.
And explain the LOF and solid tempered logo. I know you can get tempered glass, but plexiglass? Please weigh your top.
I couldn't care less what you have or what you believe Saragtoga manufactured over the last 30-some years.
I know what I have. Two Saratoga tops, one plexglass with a frame, one glass with no frame around it.
I'm sure if you googled it, you'd find the info you're looking for.
I know what I have. Two Saratoga tops, one plexglass with a frame, one glass with no frame around it.
I'm sure if you googled it, you'd find the info you're looking for.
Originally Posted by Bart
Uh.....no.
I said I have a framed plexi Saratoga top.
That's all.
I also said I have a non-framed glass top.
You may want to re read my posts.
I said I have a framed plexi Saratoga top.
That's all.
I also said I have a non-framed glass top.
You may want to re read my posts.
Does your top have the LOF/ Solid tempered. If it doesn't, I would LOVE picture proof of this with a piece of paper saying "Bart" on it in the photo.
If it has the LOF/ Solid tempered...it's glass. End of debate.
I read your posts, found your bush beating...now fess up. Does it or does it not have the LOF/ Solid Tempered?
Simple question you had numerous opportunites to answer.
Geeze.
09-13-2008, 07:55 PM
#43
Drifting
Also, I suggest reading both these links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libbey_Owens_Ford
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilkington
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libbey_Owens_Ford
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilkington
09-13-2008, 08:05 PM
#45
Drifting
A simple "mine does not have such logo" would have made this thread much shorter.
The words safety and float also appear.
Safety obviously refers to certain criteria needed to be met to avoid making a deadly sunroof, which is why it's solid tempered (much stronger).
The float refers to the Float Glass Process used by companies to make plate glass.
Kind of funny the NSG/Pilkington company uses this process, which acquired LOF, isn't it?
Saratoga framed tops are made with the Float Glass Process and are solid tempered glass (so long as the LOF logo, solid tempepred, safety and float appear). If we can have photo proof of a saratoga top without the afore mentioned words, and it can be clearly identified as a Saratoga top, then yes...I will gladly accept they made others. Until then, I haven't seen any proof.
The words safety and float also appear.
Safety obviously refers to certain criteria needed to be met to avoid making a deadly sunroof, which is why it's solid tempered (much stronger).
The float refers to the Float Glass Process used by companies to make plate glass.
Kind of funny the NSG/Pilkington company uses this process, which acquired LOF, isn't it?
Saratoga framed tops are made with the Float Glass Process and are solid tempered glass (so long as the LOF logo, solid tempepred, safety and float appear). If we can have photo proof of a saratoga top without the afore mentioned words, and it can be clearly identified as a Saratoga top, then yes...I will gladly accept they made others. Until then, I haven't seen any proof.