944 direct speaker replacement options?
05-06-2002, 03:07 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
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944 direct speaker replacement options?
so lets say i wanted to replace my 4 speakers with something cheap and something that will fit without any mods.. whats the best bet?
the <a href="http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-mK3o1B3CTPb/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=51500&I=023PCXT462" target="_blank">Blaupunkt T-Line 4"x6"/4"x6"m Speakers</a>
and
<a href="http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-mK3o1B3CTPb/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=51500&I=023PCXI462" target="_blank">Blaupunkt Injected Series 4"x6"/4"x6"m Speakers</a>
do they actually fit in the front door spots? on the 944faq page it says if they have plastic handles like that it wont work.. only metal..
but other pages ive seen say these are a direct fit/replacement for front and rear.. anyone have any experience with these?
the <a href="http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-mK3o1B3CTPb/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=51500&I=023PCXT462" target="_blank">Blaupunkt T-Line 4"x6"/4"x6"m Speakers</a>
and
<a href="http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-mK3o1B3CTPb/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=10&g=51500&I=023PCXI462" target="_blank">Blaupunkt Injected Series 4"x6"/4"x6"m Speakers</a>
do they actually fit in the front door spots? on the 944faq page it says if they have plastic handles like that it wont work.. only metal..
but other pages ive seen say these are a direct fit/replacement for front and rear.. anyone have any experience with these?
05-06-2002, 03:16 PM
#2
I just installed Blaupunkt PCxi's in the front doors this weekend....and will post detailed comments shortly (as soon as I can get the photos from my digital camera uploaded). Stay tuned!
05-06-2002, 03:56 PM
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I just installed the cheaper ones last week. They are shallower than the more expensive ones and supposedly are the only ones that will work. The problem is that the stock grille no longer fits, and the Blau grill does not cover the entire opening in the door. I don't really care about this, but some people have installed a Radio Shack grille which fits very well.
Eugene
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05-06-2002, 08:10 PM
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The old grilles dont fit because the speakers are 2 way speakers. This means that there is a smaller tweeter speaker in the center of the main speaker that sticks out a little bit. I just saved my old grilles and installed the new blaupunkt ones because it's worth it to me to have better sound in my car.
05-06-2002, 08:25 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Aw dammit. I thought for sure the Blau's would fit no fuss.
I guess I better <a href="http://www2.bc.edu/~benedicw/944stereo/home.htm" target="_blank">recorrect my web page</a>.
Just so there's no confusion, what's this about a plastic vs/ metal bracket? As long as it's the same football shape, it really shouldn't matter. 4x6s come in plate form (rectangles with notches and holes everywhere) and Eurompean "m" form (ovals with four tabs). I'm trying to get very specific info, 'cause the stuff that's out there's all sorts of garbled.
I guess I better <a href="http://www2.bc.edu/~benedicw/944stereo/home.htm" target="_blank">recorrect my web page</a>.
Just so there's no confusion, what's this about a plastic vs/ metal bracket? As long as it's the same football shape, it really shouldn't matter. 4x6s come in plate form (rectangles with notches and holes everywhere) and Eurompean "m" form (ovals with four tabs). I'm trying to get very specific info, 'cause the stuff that's out there's all sorts of garbled.
05-06-2002, 08:30 PM
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You need the "m" form which is an oval with 4 tabs. These tabs need to be very thin. Because of this all of the "m" speakers are metal.
So you don't NEED metal, you just need "m", and all of the "m" speakers happen to be metal.
So you don't NEED metal, you just need "m", and all of the "m" speakers happen to be metal.
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05-06-2002, 09:28 PM
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hmm so the new blaupunkts have a larger tweeter... so the old grilles wont fit.. the new grills will but they leave some uncovered door showing? but they clear the dash? hmm.. got any pics of the new blaupunkts with their oval grills installed in your car? im wondering how ugly it really is....
40 bucks for 2 is nice
40 bucks for 2 is nice
05-06-2002, 10:53 PM
#9
I did this install over the weekend with little more than a Swiss Army Knife. My install was kind of a hack job....I will probably be "reopening the patient" to solder some wires later on.
My original speakers were in laughably poor condition. Upon viewing them, it is surprising that they emit any sound at all. So the goal has been to upgrade the speakers while retaining factory grills and a stock appearance.
Blaupunkt PCxi's were chosen as replacements. I was hoping for a simple "plug n play" self install. But alas! The install was relatively simple, but not without a couple of issues.
First, the original factory male/female wire connectors do not fit the connection on the back of the new Blaus. So I had to use the new wire supplied with the speakers. (This was the hack job portion of my install, as I used simple tape to keep the new wires affixed to the old factory connections. For shame... <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> I will reinforce the connection properly at a later date.)
Second, and more fundamentally, the PCxi's are just a HAIR deeper than one would prefer. There is not much tweeter protrusion, but the magnet appears to be significantly larger in this model. Better sound, but at a cost. Although I managed to get the factory grills back on, there is a noticeable bulge in the grills. If you look closely, they do not fit flush with the door.
The magnet on the back of the PCxi's appears to be coming in contact with the metal track/port in the door that restricts speaker depth. I don't know how the speakers will go any deeper into the door without modifying this thing (power window track?) first.
I think that when I reopen the grills and refasten the wiring, I will be able to work the factory grills in such a state as they are not too noticeably off. But still, the fact remains that the new speakers are NOT an exact fit.
It may be the the PCxt's, which have a slightly shallower mounting depth, will be an exact fit. But I do not know how the sound of those units compares to the PCxi's. I guess they can't be all that different.
How about the sound? Well, compared to my original mummified speakers, the improvement in sound quality is amazing. The Becker CDR-220 head unit is pumping out tunes the way it was meant to be. The sound is simply excellent - wonderful mid-range and high reproduction, decent tight bass. I am no audiophile...but I am quite pleased.
Visually, I wish the fit were better....but is it passable as it is.
The verdict? Visually the speakers are okay.... The factory look is retained, even if the grills do bulge out a bit. From an audio standpoint, there is no comparison between these and the factory speakers. Best $50 you will spend!
I put together a hack job Photoshop collage of the install. If nothing else, it will give you an idea of what to expect. (Sorry I don't really have time to do this in more detail....but this is about as simple an install as exists, anyway.) Check out my old decrepit original speakers!
Here's a link to the photo:
<a href="http://www.986host.com/gallery/SeanMichael/Blaupunkt_Install?full=1" target="_blank">Blaupunkt PCxi Speaker Install - 1986 944</a>
My original speakers were in laughably poor condition. Upon viewing them, it is surprising that they emit any sound at all. So the goal has been to upgrade the speakers while retaining factory grills and a stock appearance.
Blaupunkt PCxi's were chosen as replacements. I was hoping for a simple "plug n play" self install. But alas! The install was relatively simple, but not without a couple of issues.
First, the original factory male/female wire connectors do not fit the connection on the back of the new Blaus. So I had to use the new wire supplied with the speakers. (This was the hack job portion of my install, as I used simple tape to keep the new wires affixed to the old factory connections. For shame... <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> I will reinforce the connection properly at a later date.)
Second, and more fundamentally, the PCxi's are just a HAIR deeper than one would prefer. There is not much tweeter protrusion, but the magnet appears to be significantly larger in this model. Better sound, but at a cost. Although I managed to get the factory grills back on, there is a noticeable bulge in the grills. If you look closely, they do not fit flush with the door.
The magnet on the back of the PCxi's appears to be coming in contact with the metal track/port in the door that restricts speaker depth. I don't know how the speakers will go any deeper into the door without modifying this thing (power window track?) first.
I think that when I reopen the grills and refasten the wiring, I will be able to work the factory grills in such a state as they are not too noticeably off. But still, the fact remains that the new speakers are NOT an exact fit.
It may be the the PCxt's, which have a slightly shallower mounting depth, will be an exact fit. But I do not know how the sound of those units compares to the PCxi's. I guess they can't be all that different.
How about the sound? Well, compared to my original mummified speakers, the improvement in sound quality is amazing. The Becker CDR-220 head unit is pumping out tunes the way it was meant to be. The sound is simply excellent - wonderful mid-range and high reproduction, decent tight bass. I am no audiophile...but I am quite pleased.
Visually, I wish the fit were better....but is it passable as it is.
The verdict? Visually the speakers are okay.... The factory look is retained, even if the grills do bulge out a bit. From an audio standpoint, there is no comparison between these and the factory speakers. Best $50 you will spend!
I put together a hack job Photoshop collage of the install. If nothing else, it will give you an idea of what to expect. (Sorry I don't really have time to do this in more detail....but this is about as simple an install as exists, anyway.) Check out my old decrepit original speakers!
Here's a link to the photo:
<a href="http://www.986host.com/gallery/SeanMichael/Blaupunkt_Install?full=1" target="_blank">Blaupunkt PCxi Speaker Install - 1986 944</a>
05-07-2002, 12:03 AM
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O.K. Guy's I have these same speakers in my 86 951 fitting with the stock grills. After reading this post I went and pulled one of them out to see what the deal was. First off, note that I bought these about a year ago so these should work for you if they haven't changed dimensions at all.
[quote] First, the original factory male/female wire connectors do not fit the connection on the back of the new Blaus. So I had to use the new wire supplied with the speakers. (This was the hack job portion of my install, as I used simple tape to keep the new wires affixed to the old factory connections. For shame... I will reinforce the connection at a later date.) <hr></blockquote>
I just changed the factory wiring by cutting off the positive connector and crimping on a suitable replacement. Simple and plugged right in.
[quote] Second, and more fundamentally, the PCxi's are just a HAIR deeper than one would prefer. There is not much tweeter protrusion, but the magnet appears to be significantly larger in this model. Better sound, but at a cost. Although I managed to get the factory grills back on, there is a noticeable bulge in the grills. If you look closely, they do not fit flush with the door.
The magnet on the back of the PCxi''s is coming in contact with the metal track/port in the door that restricts speaker depth. I don't know how the speakers will go any deeper into the door without modifying this thing (power window track?) first. <hr></blockquote>
Mine do NOT come in contact with the window track. The inner metal oval frame of the speaker does touch the oval cutout in the door with the rubber boots inplace. This causes the flanges not to sit flush with the door. On mine there was about a 1/16" clearance between the mounting tabs and the door. I wasn't worried about this since the the flanges will easilly flex enough to make up for this. To get the factory grills to fit flush with the door panel, I modified the inside of the factory grills. The inside of the factory grills have a molded in oval ridge on them that comes in contact with the oval ridge of the speaker. I got out my dremel and ground off the oval ridge on the inside of the factory grill. With this ridge removed the factory grills will fit flush with the door panels and not come in contact with the speakers. I've run them for about a year now and they are great. I don't own a digital camera, but I can borrow one later this week and get you guys some photo's if you want them.
Later,
Rob
[quote] First, the original factory male/female wire connectors do not fit the connection on the back of the new Blaus. So I had to use the new wire supplied with the speakers. (This was the hack job portion of my install, as I used simple tape to keep the new wires affixed to the old factory connections. For shame... I will reinforce the connection at a later date.) <hr></blockquote>
I just changed the factory wiring by cutting off the positive connector and crimping on a suitable replacement. Simple and plugged right in.
[quote] Second, and more fundamentally, the PCxi's are just a HAIR deeper than one would prefer. There is not much tweeter protrusion, but the magnet appears to be significantly larger in this model. Better sound, but at a cost. Although I managed to get the factory grills back on, there is a noticeable bulge in the grills. If you look closely, they do not fit flush with the door.
The magnet on the back of the PCxi''s is coming in contact with the metal track/port in the door that restricts speaker depth. I don't know how the speakers will go any deeper into the door without modifying this thing (power window track?) first. <hr></blockquote>
Mine do NOT come in contact with the window track. The inner metal oval frame of the speaker does touch the oval cutout in the door with the rubber boots inplace. This causes the flanges not to sit flush with the door. On mine there was about a 1/16" clearance between the mounting tabs and the door. I wasn't worried about this since the the flanges will easilly flex enough to make up for this. To get the factory grills to fit flush with the door panel, I modified the inside of the factory grills. The inside of the factory grills have a molded in oval ridge on them that comes in contact with the oval ridge of the speaker. I got out my dremel and ground off the oval ridge on the inside of the factory grill. With this ridge removed the factory grills will fit flush with the door panels and not come in contact with the speakers. I've run them for about a year now and they are great. I don't own a digital camera, but I can borrow one later this week and get you guys some photo's if you want them.
Later,
Rob
05-07-2002, 12:07 AM
#11
I used Kenwood Excelons, model number #KFC-X466C. They fit really well, just a bit of a bulge, not noticable unless you were the one installing them. Installation was simple, the wiring ends fit right on. Overall they are clean and clear with the head unit I have. A good match to the Punch 8"s in the rear fender wells. My rear seat speakers are disconnected.
I cant really tell if they touch in the back on the window bar, the rubber boot might be compressing a bit. But barely if at all, the speakers mount very easily. The thickness of a washer or two would remove all trace of flex in the speaker grilles.
Here is a review of the KFC-X466C speaker.
<a href="http://www.carreview.com/reviews/car_speakers/product_10986.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.carreview.com/reviews/car_speakers/product_10986.shtml</a>
I cant really tell if they touch in the back on the window bar, the rubber boot might be compressing a bit. But barely if at all, the speakers mount very easily. The thickness of a washer or two would remove all trace of flex in the speaker grilles.
Here is a review of the KFC-X466C speaker.
<a href="http://www.carreview.com/reviews/car_speakers/product_10986.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.carreview.com/reviews/car_speakers/product_10986.shtml</a>
05-07-2002, 04:23 AM
#12
Three Wheelin'
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wow thanks for all the info guys
but those grills.. with the holes.. are those pre 86 or something ? i have the black square grills that are meant to protrude... as in.. they stick out on the door.. i wonder how these will fit on the new blaupunkts.. they just snap on... hmm
you know, these kind:
btw, anyone fearless enough to try to replace the rear speakers? gotta take apart the whole panel in the back for it
yipe.. my rear drivers side one is barely audible.
but those grills.. with the holes.. are those pre 86 or something ? i have the black square grills that are meant to protrude... as in.. they stick out on the door.. i wonder how these will fit on the new blaupunkts.. they just snap on... hmm
you know, these kind:
btw, anyone fearless enough to try to replace the rear speakers? gotta take apart the whole panel in the back for it
yipe.. my rear drivers side one is barely audible.
05-07-2002, 09:35 AM
#13
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Operator the rear speakers are doable without removing the rear window. A friend of mine did it no problem. You simply have to pry the rear panel away from the rubber window grommet and there is enough room to put a speaker in.
05-07-2002, 10:08 AM
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I did the rears this past weekend - I don't think it would have worked to just bend the panel up unless I had a really short screw driver and a lot of torque in my wrist. You might put a crease in the panel with the method.
First I carefully undid all the screws on the panel and then I undid the molding strip on the side of the door and pulled up the door sill. The panel has a a few of the those plastic "rivets" that you just gently pop out. You have to carefully pry apart the upper leatherette lining and the lining on the panel. Work your way down the window using a screw driver to loosen up the rubber molding. IT IS VERY EASY TO TEAR THE PANEL LINING. On the first panel I did I got just a little tear in the corner of the window
I worked my down and across toward the corner of the window. On the second panel I got it perfect. The most likey place to run into trouble is the corner of the window. To put the lining back along the window I just ran a screw driver carefully up under the rubber molding and fed the liner in behind it. The improved sound quality is work the work
First I carefully undid all the screws on the panel and then I undid the molding strip on the side of the door and pulled up the door sill. The panel has a a few of the those plastic "rivets" that you just gently pop out. You have to carefully pry apart the upper leatherette lining and the lining on the panel. Work your way down the window using a screw driver to loosen up the rubber molding. IT IS VERY EASY TO TEAR THE PANEL LINING. On the first panel I did I got just a little tear in the corner of the window
I worked my down and across toward the corner of the window. On the second panel I got it perfect. The most likey place to run into trouble is the corner of the window. To put the lining back along the window I just ran a screw driver carefully up under the rubber molding and fed the liner in behind it. The improved sound quality is work the work