Ben951S

85.5 944 NA 5spd. Rescued from sitting, and then a quick PO before me.

91k miles when I got it.

Had done
* Timing Belt, Water Pump, trans/diff fluid changes, oil change, oil pressure sender, lower rad hose, repack front bearings, new shift lever and bushing (nice improvement)
Did
* Brakes (all new all around + stainless lines), rear shocks.

Some other stuff that's not relevent.

Bottom line, ever since the fluid change (which the tech said the fluid was pretty decent out of it, not black terrible, no pleathora of metal shavings, etc), I started to get some noise, and now it's to the point where it sounds like ... death.

Going straight/getting up to speed is sometimes silent, no worries. It started off as a throttle on/throttle off problem, could hear/feel a clunk. Then I would get a thunking noise under torque (accelerating only)... which then went to off throttle only, and only with the clutch in.

I just want to know, what testing can I do for you guys, to try and narrow this down. I am also getting a vibration through the shifter (only when in gear with the clutch in) at 4k, which tech says is also the trans, though new bushing muted a lot).

What tests can I do for you guys to get your input. Trans fluid is MT90.

Help! =(


I can re-state as needed, in a hurry at the moment. =(

There are sounds now to download, as well as better symptom/aggrivator descriptions

austin944

I had the 'clunk' when lifting off the throttle quickly, and some more gear noise than normal. The rubber-centered clutch had let go.

Remove the rubber access plug underneath/at the front of the diff, grab hold of the drive axle and give it a really good twist with the car in gear. It should not move if the clutch is still good.

Ben951S

austin944, is this test outlined in the haynes manual? And if I do still have the original rubber clutch, and it's doing this, will anything else get damaged by driving it as is (as silly as that is).

p3

Also, the clutch pulls and feels good, 0-5500rpm (where I usually let off if I keep it in gear), and I've down shifted from 4th to 3rd and it grabs and feels good. I wouldn't be surprised if it was on it's second clutch. 91k miles total.

More questions/posts welcome!

austin944

I heard about the test here on the forums. You can damage the transmission if you keep driving the car with a blown rubber-centered clutch.

My clutch also felt good and the car pulled strong under acceleration with the blown clutch. It had 120k on the clock with the original clutch.

Ben951S

I will do that test and also try to look in the inspection hole. Also makes sense this could be Torque Tube related? Maybe? Anything to look at/test for that guy?

rmconner80

I saw your post on Pelican too, and replied. My vote is clutch safety tab CLUNK as well. I know it personally...

Ben951S

But would it SOUND so horrible if it was just the clutch... and then sometimes, from a start to 60mph, no sound (straight line). I need a parking lot to do some testing, but not even sure how I would test things...

If it is the clutch, if I 'am' on these tabs (though no vibrations/backlash what so ever save the 'just at 4k' and fine afterwards), what will need to be replaced more than the clutch? Trans too? 2nd synchro isn't great... I could pick up an LSD trans while doing clutch, if it comes to that. oy.

p3

edit

It is also much better when cold... will find out when I leave work at 5pm if that's the case, today is the worst (warm out) it's been ever... =(

Mamooguy

Ring and pinion issue, perhaps? Also a common problem.

reno808

how is that possible?

austin944

How is what possible? Damaging the transmission with a blown clutch? Driving a car with a bad clutch? Getting to 120K on the original clutch?

Richgreenster

From your descriptions it sounds like it could be both. To check it out cheeply just drain the new trans fluid into a clean container, and check out if there is metal in the fluid. If the fluid looks good, the chances are the trans is still good. You can also clean the clutch inspection area then place a piece of tape over the lower hole, drive the car and see what sticks. When my clutch went bad, all kinds of powder/crap came out of that area. Good Luck!

Ben951S

I just drained the trans fluid and the mechanic said it was decent, not indicating problems.

I can try the tape trick. Trans feels good. Can you damage the trans or diff if the clutch goes??

Richgreenster

I think that the reason that people are saying that you can damage the trans when you blow a clutch is that the clutch no longer has its ability to absorb the initial torque from the engine to the torque tube. It would be like a hammer on a nail vs. a hammer on a nail with spring in between them. But I will say this, I raced my car the final 1/4 of the season with a bad clutch without it going totally out. I was just waiting for the catch pins on the clutch to brake and leave me completely immobile. It never did brake and I sold the car at the end of that year as is. Also if it is your clutch, a broken piece and become wedged between the disk and flywheel and strand you as well. Tow bill $$$ Just try the tape and go drive the car close by and see what come out. If you are getting chunks (big or little then it will be the clutch. (big job but with time, money, and tools you can do it. I also have an extra clutch disk that has never been used that I will sell you cheap. Just let me know.

LeMans71

+1 on the bad clutch idea. Symptoms sound just like the '89 S2 I just bought, with similar mileage (90K). Planning to do the clutch job, just as soon as I'm done ensuring that the engine lives (belts and rollers, cam chain tensioner). Like you, I worried about the transaxle, but it would surprise me greatly if the ring/pinion were bad after only 90K miles. Good luck - keep us posted.

Ben951S

I am going to do the tape trick tonight if I can, and also add more trans fluid (if it will take it).

I wonder if it's (the tranny) leaked any since it was changed, the shop did remove the stripped (my bad...) drain plug and replaced it, I wonder if they cracked the seal or something when getting that out... I still have the third bottle of MT90 that wasn't finished that they used to fill it.


Let me ask a silly question. The differential and trans come in/go out as one unit, right? Are they seperable?