xsboost90

i just went through this as well- guy put down a deposit on some MB wheels i had for sale because i told him someone else was coming to buy them the next day. I tell the guy they are sold-cus this guy put down a deposit. Three weeks go by and the guy never comes back or calls. In fact i call him and he never returns my messages. I sell the wheels for that much less than i was asking just to get rid of them. After alittle over a month he calls wanting his money back. I said no way. He said how about half back- i agree- never hear from him again! If i ever hear from him again - a few months ago at this point - there is NO WAY im refunding these. I will never take a down payment again- cash in hand or watch out for the next buyer. I would tell him if he buys it you'll honor your down payment and if not sorry about your luck- that or agree on a price both feels is fair.

on a side note- IPSC- i think i know Frank Leonard - he's had some real shady cars for sale before. I remember him at the Taj Speedfest a few years ago talking this guy into buying a red turbo that was late offset front suspension, early rear, quarter was obviously hit hard and half assed put back together, resprayed, ok interior, nasty under the hood and he wanted some obsene amt. of money for it.

Lizard944

What would probably happen (emphasis on "probably") if the buyer were to take you to small claims court, he'd most likely win. There doesn't seem like much 'meeting of the minds' type of conduct here, and as the saying goes; " a verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on." That being said, the buyer doesn't have the right to string you on forever, but the seller has the burden of setting term conditions on the deposit, ie., "if you don't start making payments as promised after X amount of time, then I can keep the deposit." Unfortunately, it sounds like you set yourself up for an 'unconditional' agreement for purchase. In District Magistrate (small claims) court, without a written contract, the person most likely to win would be the buyer, but probably would compensate you something just to be diplomatic. You'd have to prove actual damages, and show written evidence that you warned buyer of impending loss of deposit if he didn't take action to purchase the vehicle, in order to win the case 100%. I predict a 70/30 split, in favor of the buyer--depending on how good the 'violin story' is-- and a stern lecture on verbal contracts from the judge...

--Lizard

ACG

I am not a legal expert. I am applying what I learnt in Business Law when I was in my MBA program.

The court may favor Ericmess. According to contract law, the key elements of "offer", "acceptance" and "consideration" must be fulfilled. The situation between the poster and his intended buyer appears to fulfill these conditions. A verbal contract can also be considered a legally binding contract, especially when the buyer has already placed a deposit to confirm his intent to purchase.

Depending on the convincing nature of Ericmess' argument in court, the court will most likely allow him to keep the deposit. I would venture to say that the court may even require the buyer to furnish the balance of payment on the car as a contractual relationship already exists.

I would love to hear what MichelleJD would say about this situation.

BackInBlack

If i was the buyer in small claims court:

I'd set up a PPI. A PPI is bound to uncover things that were unknown (or at least I'd state they were unknown). And of course I'd say I told the seller I was planning on a PPI. Any recommended fixes to the tune of $1K and I'd be getting my deposit back via the judge. Judges tend to protect the consumer more so than the seller. You have no "as is where is" clause. I could show the Judge this website where most posters recommend a PPI in order to show that a PPI is reasonable to expect.

Have you driven the car at all since accepting the deposit? If so, I don't think a judge is going to give much consideration to storage and insurance. Same if the car is "stored" on your non-commercial property.

I think it was stupid of the buyer to relinquish a deposit without some type of written contract. I also think it was foolish on your part to accept said deposit without same.

I've only sold one car with payment terms. He was employed by my friend and lived on my friend's property, so I had recourse. A contract was penned to include the terms of payment or lack thereof. He didn't take delivery until paid in full. Heck...when I first bought my house, I borrowed a bit of coin from the folks. I insisted on a contract. I've seen friendships and families fall apart when there wasn't a mutual agreement that both parties signed.

If I put up good faith money (not termed a deposit) on a house, that money is held by my broker. If I fail to obtain financing, for WHATEVER reason, that money is returned (with interest). I think the guy is being a bit of a weanie and he shouldn't have made an obligation he couldn't keep. No reason for 2 weanies.

I'm still at a loss as to why you would enter into this delayed sale. Any REAL costs you knew you would absorb. So he seemed like a good guy and really wanted your car. Those grow on trees. I don't view a "deposit" as "cash in hand". He told you he didn't have the money and would have to save for months. Big red flag IMHO. I still think a 50-50 split is about as fair as it can be. You both errored. You'll both know better next time and the lesson really takes hold if you both hurt a bit.

Out of curiousity...what are the cars specs, condition and agreed price?

philcav7

That is correct. Even without a written contract, there was an agreement of some sort and the buyer is trying to default on terms of the agreement.

That's is absurd! You would request the PPI after you asked to terminate the agreement? You can only legally change terms/conditions of an agreement if both parties agree to the changes. Besides, it's probably a few months too late to try and pull that.

Apples and oranges. Securing financing is a CONTINGENCY of the contract when buying a house because the bank won't commit to writing a check until AFTER a house has been selected, appraised, inspected, insured, title researched, and such. None of those stipulations apply to a cash deposit on a used car transaction.

88BlueTSiQuest

From the get-go, it sounded as though this deal would of never gone through to begin with.

The proposed buyer did not have the funding or ability to actually buy the car in question. If he had, the deposit would of been readily available and the sale would of gone through pretty quickly.

Sounds to me that the buyer was just way over his/her head, and just finally realized that and now wants to back out.

I would guess that the refund of the deposit is totally in the seller's court, and is going to depend on how well you can sleep at night.

Personally, I think all deposits are non-refundable. But once again, this would depend on your own personal view of a deposit. Perhaps the best idea is the one that stated to deduct your insurance and storage fees, and refund the difference.

lart951

Damn, nice too know the way people thinks, in my book that's called stealing. It was a deposit, wether is an individual or a business it was a deposit and if it was not stated otherwise is refundable.

Don't be a freaking crook give the money back, he gave you the money in good faith, you took it in good faith nothing was written, gave it back.

xsboost90

ok so lets say you have two people looking to buy your car. One drops a deposit and you have to tell the other guy - sorry i know you have cash in your hand but this guy gave me a deposit. So then the first buyer backs out and the second guy already bought a car. Then you sit on your car for months afterwards. I say thats crappy. This is why i will not be taking down payments anymore. If he were to take the down payment and then sell the car to the first person w/ the cash in hand then i could see him being called a crook when he kept the money.

lart951

that's correct, 1st he should have determined how long he was going to wait
2nd, what would happen to the deposit in case of backing out the deal. If the buyer goes to court and has a receipt he might get his money back, the seller might counter suit him for losses. Best thing is to sell the car to the first buyer that has the money in hand.

PorscheDude1

I once put a $700 deposit on a car. Things happed (in my life) and things changed, and I was unable to follow thru on the purchase.
I never asked for my deposit back.
Because I know the game.
I think the guy is SOL.

lart951

Lol, that's probably because you are 16, most of the cars that I buy, I ussually put a deposit via paypal until i can arrange proper pick up, in case something goes wrong and I can't pick up the car, I always get my money back and I am sure it has nothing to do with me being 6" 4 and 300lbs.

PorscheDude1

16x2 and change.

This happened long before paypal was even a twinkle in someones eye.

Auto_Werks 3.6

+1 for return the deposit less expenses, and maybe a little more... to consider the time value of your money. If the car is as nice as you say, you should have no trouble selling it.

lart951

OT. Dan is that you in your avatar's picture, lol. You Ohinians look all so alike, are you guys all related, Julian aka the rock, Dan Scully, you, look all alike, rolf..

BackInBlack

off topic:

Smokin...you have a TR250 eh? I had a TR4 for years. Always wanted a 250. 4 body with 6 motor = best of both worlds.