My porsche exploded.
11-06-2007, 11:20 PM
#61
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damn, i am so sorry to read this. i came very, very close to a similar fate in my car, and decided to do something about it. it's too late for you now, but read about the fireproof fuel sleeve here;
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/376462-fire-sleeve-for-fuel-lines.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turbo-and-turbo-s-forum/376462-fire-sleeve-for-fuel-lines.html
11-07-2007, 01:38 PM
#62
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It's definitely done for. Oil/fuel fires tend to get quite hot, and what with them going for 15 minutes at least, that's a lot of time for the aluminum to deform due to the heat. All it takes is ~700 C for most Al alloys to melt.
Man I'm sorry. Look on the bright side -- my friend's garage burned down a month ago, completely ruining:
'70's Lambo (Miura?...spelling?)
A Lotus of some sort
Formula Ford race car
A perfect 300zx TT, w/ a $15-20k motor next to it, waiting to be installed
Many motorcycles, including a 1940-something Harley
Tens of thousands in tools
1940-something mill, lathe
the list goes on...and all this due to a mistake while MIG welding.
My heart goes out to your beloved 944.
Man I'm sorry. Look on the bright side -- my friend's garage burned down a month ago, completely ruining:
'70's Lambo (Miura?...spelling?)
A Lotus of some sort
Formula Ford race car
A perfect 300zx TT, w/ a $15-20k motor next to it, waiting to be installed
Many motorcycles, including a 1940-something Harley
Tens of thousands in tools
1940-something mill, lathe
the list goes on...and all this due to a mistake while MIG welding.
My heart goes out to your beloved 944.
In case anyone has not seen the video/pics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEQqaINrjA4
http://forums.beyond.ca/st/193160/my-worst-nightmare
Very Sorry to hear about you 944........ RIP
11-07-2007, 05:01 PM
#63
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Sorry to hear that, but a word of warning to all. I just cleaned the earth back there, just at the point where Kurt's fire started. The earths were covered in a chemical grime caused I think from a previous leak from the heater bypas valve that sits above them. Also the fuel vapor pipe was cracked in the same area and one of the earth wires had the insulation stripped, It's all somewhat packed in that area of the engine bay.
Hi, sorry for the dumb question, but what do you mean about "earths"? What exactly is that?
Thanks!
Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX-P74
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2)
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 (Olds 455)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter (1800cc)
11-07-2007, 06:02 PM
#64
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11-10-2007, 11:15 AM
#65
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Insurrance insight...
Kurt-
Sorry for your loss man. At least the damage was contained and no one was seriously hurt or made homeless from it. On the bright side, now you have an excuse to upgrade...
As for the insurrance claims, do your homework on this one. I just had my '86 951 totaled out a few months ago due to a merger with my front-end and the rear-end of a Honda. Luckily no was was hurt in this occassion either. The damage done was pretty minor and I was able to drive the car home.
Sadly, the insurrance company totaled her out as the parts are just too expensive (i.e thru Porsche) and they only use OEM. So, I can almost garauntee yours will get totaled out as well. It took me over two months to come up with an agreeable ACV (Actual Cash Value). The way this works is they will find a few comparable cars to establish a set price. For many insurrance companies, this is a big database service that they query within a 60+ mile radius. It contains records from AutoTrader, cars.com, dealerships, etc. The problem is that the data in this system does not take into account the actual condition of the car being sold and many times the data is incorrect. I had to go through 4 rounds of this with my company (each time finding the data incorrect). It's your right to ask for a copy of the comparables. Most of them list the dealership or the numbers for the private sellers. I found in talking with the actual sellers, several cars in the comparables list fell into the following catagories: salvage titles, high-mileage, non-turbos (even thou listed as turbos in the comparables). This was the biggest area of contention for me. Convencing the insurrance company that turbos are worth more than NAs will be your biggest battle. Be sure to submit your own research. I faxed them over 50 pages of articles from NADA, Excellence Market Values (April, 07) and coutless comparables from AutoTrader, Cars.com, and Rennlist. Only send cars that support your claims. It does no good to send in the cars that are $20,000+ or $4,000. And stick to your guns. I finally had to pull in the big guns by sending a letter to the CEO of the insurrance company and copying the insurrance comissioner for the state. This is when we all finally saw eye-to-eye. So get familar with your states auto loss regulations and keep the comissioner as your hold card.
Another thing to do is consider buying the car back from the insurrance company either to fix, part-out or sell to another party. You can make a little additional jack this way. Average buy back prices range between $500-1000.
Good luck and PM me if you would like further insight.
Nelson
Sorry for your loss man. At least the damage was contained and no one was seriously hurt or made homeless from it. On the bright side, now you have an excuse to upgrade...
As for the insurrance claims, do your homework on this one. I just had my '86 951 totaled out a few months ago due to a merger with my front-end and the rear-end of a Honda. Luckily no was was hurt in this occassion either. The damage done was pretty minor and I was able to drive the car home.
Sadly, the insurrance company totaled her out as the parts are just too expensive (i.e thru Porsche) and they only use OEM. So, I can almost garauntee yours will get totaled out as well. It took me over two months to come up with an agreeable ACV (Actual Cash Value). The way this works is they will find a few comparable cars to establish a set price. For many insurrance companies, this is a big database service that they query within a 60+ mile radius. It contains records from AutoTrader, cars.com, dealerships, etc. The problem is that the data in this system does not take into account the actual condition of the car being sold and many times the data is incorrect. I had to go through 4 rounds of this with my company (each time finding the data incorrect). It's your right to ask for a copy of the comparables. Most of them list the dealership or the numbers for the private sellers. I found in talking with the actual sellers, several cars in the comparables list fell into the following catagories: salvage titles, high-mileage, non-turbos (even thou listed as turbos in the comparables). This was the biggest area of contention for me. Convencing the insurrance company that turbos are worth more than NAs will be your biggest battle. Be sure to submit your own research. I faxed them over 50 pages of articles from NADA, Excellence Market Values (April, 07) and coutless comparables from AutoTrader, Cars.com, and Rennlist. Only send cars that support your claims. It does no good to send in the cars that are $20,000+ or $4,000. And stick to your guns. I finally had to pull in the big guns by sending a letter to the CEO of the insurrance company and copying the insurrance comissioner for the state. This is when we all finally saw eye-to-eye. So get familar with your states auto loss regulations and keep the comissioner as your hold card.
Another thing to do is consider buying the car back from the insurrance company either to fix, part-out or sell to another party. You can make a little additional jack this way. Average buy back prices range between $500-1000.
Good luck and PM me if you would like further insight.
Nelson
11-11-2007, 08:13 AM
#67
Monkeys Removed by Request
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Im so sorry to hear about this. You will be fighting it out with the insurance company for sure.
There were hell when I got rear ended a few years back.
There were hell when I got rear ended a few years back.
11-11-2007, 12:35 PM
#68
On the Radar
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11-12-2007, 07:39 PM
#69
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Old rubber hoses and gaskets. Pretty much everything rubber in my '83 was shot when I got it... the fuel system's portion of that was better than the rest, but still had a little fuel seeping out. It wasn't enough to be a problem yet, and some of the spots were not noticeable unless you were looking for them, but it was only a matter of time until fuel started spraying all over the engine bay. I've also noticed that the fuel rail doesn't bolt down as firmly and precisely as I'd like to see... that can cause problems with old or even just re-used injector O-rings. I had a pretty good fuel leak where my #1 fuel injector fits into the intake manifold after doing a head gasket job, even though I had replaced that O-ring less than a year ago.
Just this last weekend, we discovered a leak at the fuel pressure regulator on an '88... we pulled it off and it's O-ring looked good, but we replaced it anyway and it still leaked. What it turned out to be was a huge vacuum leak in the line going to the FPR, so it was running at maximum pressure all the time. We fixed the vacuum leak, the car ran noticeably better, and no more fuel leak.
What I've been doing as an extra layer of protection, or sometimes just as a last-minute band-aid fix, is to apply Permatex Ultra-Grey (aka "Hondabond" aka "Yamabond") completely around the outside surface of a leak or potential leak. It's a world of difference from the "black" and other sealants you'll find next to it... It has excellent sealing and adhesive qualities, is fuel and oil resistant, and can handle a good amount of engine heat, but it's still rubbery and can be easily cut off when you need to remove a part. I've used it on many cars, most of which were race cars, and it has never failed me. I just wipe the dirt off of the area, apply a generous amount, and let it dry. I once forgot to put bolts in an upper radiator hose flange that was sealed with this stuff... This was a turbocharged car, and I drove around for a whole month, including one autocross, before it even started leaking. The only thing holding 200+ F coolant at 16 psi of pressure was a 10 year old coat of this stuff.
And no matter what else you've done, it's always a good idea to carry a fire extinguisher in your car. All of my vehicles have one, and I have several more in my house. A car with a fuel fire can burn to the ground very fast... by the time the fire department is able to get there, you might not have a car left for them to save. Having an extinguisher immediately available can greatly reduce the amount of damage that's done. And even if your car never catches fire, you never know when you might come across someone else who needs it.
Just this last weekend, we discovered a leak at the fuel pressure regulator on an '88... we pulled it off and it's O-ring looked good, but we replaced it anyway and it still leaked. What it turned out to be was a huge vacuum leak in the line going to the FPR, so it was running at maximum pressure all the time. We fixed the vacuum leak, the car ran noticeably better, and no more fuel leak.
What I've been doing as an extra layer of protection, or sometimes just as a last-minute band-aid fix, is to apply Permatex Ultra-Grey (aka "Hondabond" aka "Yamabond") completely around the outside surface of a leak or potential leak. It's a world of difference from the "black" and other sealants you'll find next to it... It has excellent sealing and adhesive qualities, is fuel and oil resistant, and can handle a good amount of engine heat, but it's still rubbery and can be easily cut off when you need to remove a part. I've used it on many cars, most of which were race cars, and it has never failed me. I just wipe the dirt off of the area, apply a generous amount, and let it dry. I once forgot to put bolts in an upper radiator hose flange that was sealed with this stuff... This was a turbocharged car, and I drove around for a whole month, including one autocross, before it even started leaking. The only thing holding 200+ F coolant at 16 psi of pressure was a 10 year old coat of this stuff.
And no matter what else you've done, it's always a good idea to carry a fire extinguisher in your car. All of my vehicles have one, and I have several more in my house. A car with a fuel fire can burn to the ground very fast... by the time the fire department is able to get there, you might not have a car left for them to save. Having an extinguisher immediately available can greatly reduce the amount of damage that's done. And even if your car never catches fire, you never know when you might come across someone else who needs it.
11-12-2007, 08:56 PM
#70
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Man oh man, what a terrifying incident. Thank God it didn't happen on the freeway or something.
So is everyone pretty much agreed on what started it, and what the rest of us could do to prevent a repeat? Lives could be at stake ...
So is everyone pretty much agreed on what started it, and what the rest of us could do to prevent a repeat? Lives could be at stake ...
