Rod Thomson

So Ya,

The timing belt went on me last week. Took it in to Scan and they told me the prognosis was not good. I chose to tow the carcass back to my place and after some discussion got the wife to grudgingly accept the fact I was going to fix the thing in my driveway.

So far I have stripped away all the guts and have gotten the head off, all according to Clark's. I ended up with three bent exhaust valves.

Lessons learned so far;

When you buy a car - do a freaking leak down test. The head shows evidence of a previous timing belt event ie. bent valves in holes two and three. There is an excess of carbon build up not found in pistons 1 and 4. The noise I would hear during a cold start, which I thought was sticky lifters was most probably sticky slightly bent exhaust valves. I think this situation contributed to the early demise of the belt.

Get the belts inspected and re-tensioned every year. Mine went at 34K miles, three years after the job was first done.

Clark's Garage rocks. Haynes is useful as background.

So far I figure this will cost me 1.5K in parts and machine shop charges.

Questions so far;

Do I have to re-do the front seals and water pump when I re-assemble?
Why/ why not?

more to come

R.J.

New waterpump is a good idea and most guys do a new waterpump at every second timing belt change. Same with the front seals unless they're leaking in which case the answer is obvious. If you have no history on either than definitely do a new waterpump and take a good long hard look at your front seals. If they look new and are dry than leave 'em. Some people do everything every time but that's a bit overkill. Sounds like this car is a new addition to your stable so go through your receipts and inspect everything very well. Might as well do your motor mounts while you're there as the job is extremely simple with intake and exhaust manifolds out of the way. I have extra valves if you need em. I'm in Vancouver so feel free to PM me.

Yummybud924

are you really suppose to tension the belt once a year?

I wouldn't mind changing the belt every 2-3 years as a new belt is cheap and I doubt you need to change the rollers / water pump every 2-3 years.

I think haynes says to check t-belt tension every 15,000 kms so maybe you are suppose to check tension that often.

that's pretty lame though, I don't know anyone else that changes timing belts every 3 years or tensions it once a year.

82-T/A

I've been thinking the same thing. I'm wondering if it's just over zealous car hobbyists. I've got like 4 other hobby-type cars that take up my time, and I really don't feel like tearing the front-end of the car apart once a year. I can't imagine that this car really requires adjustment every year?

Does anyone make a timing CHAIN replacement?


Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 VW Beetle Convertible (Wife's)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX-P74
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2)
1984 Porsche 944
1981 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 (Olds 455)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter (1800cc)

xsboost90

i have a rebuilt turbo head-will work on n/a- $200+ ship.

michel944

Does time affect the timing belt strenght ? I mean mine has about 12k miles in the last 7 years since it's been replaced ! Should I put a new one in the spring when I take the car out of winter storage ?

alordofchaos

Yup, time + rubber = bad

True for prophylactics, true for timing belts
And true for gas lines, vacuum hoses, etc., too...

In addition to time, unless you keep your car in a heated garage, the belts go to zero or sub zero in the winter, 100 degrees (F) in the summer...

michel944

Thanks Jack, that sounds logical !

Jay W

How are you determining that your current timing belt failure didnt just bend the valves you see plus those slightly bent valves? Since the motor is turning it tags alot of the valves before it stops turning. I bent 8 out of 16 on one car, 6 out of 8 on another car I bought non-running and 4 out of 8 on the third one. Its always a different outcome.

michaelathome

Don't even bother with a machine shop, ship that head of yours off to Ian at 944online and buy a rebuilt w/a warranty, it will cost MUCH less than almost any shop that you could find.

Michael

Rod Thomson

Thanks guys,

R.J - I don't really have the resources to take on the a head re-build myself so I will be taking it to Alec's on Fraser street. I will get quick turnaround and a warranty for about 650 CDN. You will probably be needing your valves yourself later on, but thanks for the offer.

Jay W. - You are right. I have no way of knowing what the valves were like before my "event" but the circumstantial evidence is adding up. Soon as I got the car I had Scan do the belts. When they had a look they found a newish timing belt but really old cracked balance belts, (one actually broke and was lying at the bottom of the cover). Like I said, I had noise on colder mornings at start up plus the carbon buildup in 2 and 3 holes. I figure some one had the car with a broken belt, patched it up and sold it to the first sucker that came along (me).

What I think I will do is to give the front engine a try the way it is now, with new belts only. I will get the belt tool from Markus Blaszak and keep a real sharp eye out for bad happenings with seals and water pump. That should keep my costs down below the 1K mark and I can always do the water pump later.

Will keep you posted.....

R.J.

One thing to consider Rod is the possibility of a bad waterpump pulley bearing. I have seen with my own eyes what happens when good waterpumps go bad. Basically the bearing under the pulley slowly seizes up and starts heating up the belt and not spinning straight. This will break a belt pretty quickly. Even if the waterpump looks clean and new spin the bearing. If there is any resistance or "gritty" noise bin the pump immediately. I've used Alec's years ago and I was happy with them. By the way, if you just want to slap her back together on the cheap and dirty, you can clean up and sand the mating surfaces of the head, change the valve seals and lap some new or used valves in. If you are skilled enough to yank the head off you can definitely drop some valves in. Good luck with whichever route you choose.

marky522

Sorry I really dont understand this mentality, why gamble over 1k on a WP and rollers?? If that waterpump locks up it will take out the timing belt and bend valves just like the current one did. Shouldnt you be following the mentality of once bitten twice shy??? Dont get suckered again...

my .02

Mark

Calmchaos

Tensioning the belt only takes about 1.5 hours from the time you open the hood to the time you close it.
I bet if I really wanted to I could do it in 45 minutes.
And I could probably change the belt in not too much more time.

I don't know much about the rollers and the pump but the belt check every year and replacement every 3 isn't bad at all IMO.

What I do is buy 3 oil filters at a time online... and on the 3rd oil change I'll check the belt out.

Rod Thomson

I figured going into this repair, that I had nothing to loose. The wrecker will give me 500 for the carcass with the head on or off. Now that I have decided to push ahead with it I will have to step carefully. Just got to say I'm really glad I took the time to post this thread. Happy to have you all on board. I will check the pump bearing tonight.