968 intake on an S2?
10-09-2007, 09:16 PM
#1
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968 intake on an S2?
Just wandering if the 968 intake would be an upgrade for the S2? Would the pulse resonance produce any gains?
10-10-2007, 12:01 PM
#7
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That's a interesting statement, seeing as how the 968 intake is a dual resonance intake that creates a boost condition that increases the HP. The dual resonance intake and the variocam are the two main items that make up the roughly 30hp difference between the S2 and the 968..
Last edited by stolarzj; 10-11-2007 at 09:57 AM.
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10-10-2007, 06:33 PM
#8
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I'm not 100% certain, but I think the dual-resonance intake of the 968 was engineered to work well paired with the variable valve timing of the 968 head. I.e. the dynamics of the intake match the dynamics of the valve timing. Again I'm not sure on this, I think I read this somewhere, or maybe I dreamed it up myself...
Someone with an S2: try putting a 968 intake on there and dyno it. Then take it off and dyno it again. Or vice versa.
I'd bet variocam and the intake add more power in combination than the sum of their individual gains.
Someone with an S2: try putting a 968 intake on there and dyno it. Then take it off and dyno it again. Or vice versa.
I'd bet variocam and the intake add more power in combination than the sum of their individual gains.
10-10-2007, 07:49 PM
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That's a interesting statement, seeing as how the 968 intake is a dual resonance intake that creates a boost condition that increases the HP. The dual resonance intake and the variocam are the two main items that make up the roughly 40hp difference between the S2 and the 968..
-Nick
10-11-2007, 08:32 AM
#10
Nordschleife Master
I just want to say has anyone had both intakes off the cars next to each other? I will say this if the 968 intake is "Duel Resonance" then the 944S2 Intake is "Duel Resonance". I have to say its an intake manifold just like everyone else made for any car exception being a VarioRam Intake or ITB setup. That being said all intakes have an optimum rpm range for power based on Length, Size and Volume. That being said there is a general rule to go by that holds true every time I have ever seen a intake change on the dyno. Larger, Shorter runners and More Volume equate to more Top End Power. Longer Skinnier Runners result More Low Power. A perfect example is the 3.0L and 3.2L BMW M3 Intake Manifolds on the E36M3. So, go take the measurements of the S2 and 968 Intake and find out what it is you seek.
Also, This is the idea behind Varioram that you change length of intake runner to effect optimum powerband of the intake. This is the reason we see a better powerband in the 96+ 993's the actual peak HP numbers are far less then Porsche claim. I would say about .5 hp, offset by the weight and thus no gain in real power!
Also, if there is an intake manifold that can create boost I WANT IT NOW! RIGHT NOW! SO I CAN MAKE MILLIONS!
Also, This is the idea behind Varioram that you change length of intake runner to effect optimum powerband of the intake. This is the reason we see a better powerband in the 96+ 993's the actual peak HP numbers are far less then Porsche claim. I would say about .5 hp, offset by the weight and thus no gain in real power!
Also, if there is an intake manifold that can create boost I WANT IT NOW! RIGHT NOW! SO I CAN MAKE MILLIONS!
10-11-2007, 09:56 AM
#11
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I just want to say has anyone had both intakes off the cars next to each other? I will say this if the 968 intake is "Duel Resonance" then the 944S2 Intake is "Duel Resonance". I have to say its an intake manifold just like everyone else made for any car exception being a VarioRam Intake or ITB setup. That being said all intakes have an optimum rpm range for power based on Length, Size and Volume. That being said there is a general rule to go by that holds true every time I have ever seen a intake change on the dyno. Larger, Shorter runners and More Volume equate to more Top End Power. Longer Skinnier Runners result More Low Power. A perfect example is the 3.0L and 3.2L BMW M3 Intake Manifolds on the E36M3. So, go take the measurements of the S2 and 968 Intake and find out what it is you seek.
Also, This is the idea behind Varioram that you change length of intake runner to effect optimum powerband of the intake. This is the reason we see a better powerband in the 96+ 993's the actual peak HP numbers are far less then Porsche claim. I would say about .5 hp, offset by the weight and thus no gain in real power!
Also, if there is an intake manifold that can create boost I WANT IT NOW! RIGHT NOW! SO I CAN MAKE MILLIONS!
Also, This is the idea behind Varioram that you change length of intake runner to effect optimum powerband of the intake. This is the reason we see a better powerband in the 96+ 993's the actual peak HP numbers are far less then Porsche claim. I would say about .5 hp, offset by the weight and thus no gain in real power!
Also, if there is an intake manifold that can create boost I WANT IT NOW! RIGHT NOW! SO I CAN MAKE MILLIONS!
The S2 does not have a dual resonance intake, this was the main difference between the 968 and S2 intake. The dual resoance intake in the 968 causes the air to circulate around the intake twice causing a .3 bar boost scenario at certain RPM's. This is fact and proven by the German engineers who created this, there are charts and everything out there that document this, so go do some research. They went way out of their way to design the manifold to exactly time the intake pulses to run back through a second time and not collide anywhere - the result is a .3 bar boost - they made a big deal about this in the sales pitch.
The attached is a cutaway pic of the 968 intake.
10-11-2007, 10:15 AM
#12
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My original question was really out of curiosity. Just wandering if any of the improvements of the intake would work on an S2.
I know the 968 is very picky about back pressure on the exhaust side. If the exhaust flow does not have enough back pressure there is a big loss in torque.
The .3 bar of boost starts at about 4100RPM.
Pic of intake showing extra plenum
I know the 968 is very picky about back pressure on the exhaust side. If the exhaust flow does not have enough back pressure there is a big loss in torque.
The .3 bar of boost starts at about 4100RPM.
Pic of intake showing extra plenum
10-11-2007, 04:01 PM
#13
Nordschleife Master
I want to see this...
"there are charts and everything out there that document this, so go do some research"
1. 968 intake has no way to change volume if it did you might have a point but it doesn't. It does have a larger volume plenum.
".3 bar of boost starts at about 4100RPM"
1. There is no way it can make boost without forced air, You can create boost by wind pressure from the cars forward movement (aka Ram Air) but even its gains are questionable as debated for a long time. Also, I think the boost is subject to RPM range as well as load as engines flow air very fast at WOT and you would need to be HAULING to push an engine out of vac. Now, you might get a gain if you are doing say 150mph with a low load or low rpm as the engine doesn't flow as much air at that point in time. Otherwise I would say its all a gimick that suckers in people to thinking it works. I can tell you if it worked we would see it on every N/A race car known to man. I do think we see alot more Ram Air (IE Cart, Formula 1, ALMS) then you see this amazing 968 intake design.
"there are charts and everything out there that document this, so go do some research"
1. 968 intake has no way to change volume if it did you might have a point but it doesn't. It does have a larger volume plenum.
".3 bar of boost starts at about 4100RPM"
1. There is no way it can make boost without forced air, You can create boost by wind pressure from the cars forward movement (aka Ram Air) but even its gains are questionable as debated for a long time. Also, I think the boost is subject to RPM range as well as load as engines flow air very fast at WOT and you would need to be HAULING to push an engine out of vac. Now, you might get a gain if you are doing say 150mph with a low load or low rpm as the engine doesn't flow as much air at that point in time. Otherwise I would say its all a gimick that suckers in people to thinking it works. I can tell you if it worked we would see it on every N/A race car known to man. I do think we see alot more Ram Air (IE Cart, Formula 1, ALMS) then you see this amazing 968 intake design.
10-11-2007, 05:39 PM
#14
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I want to see this...
"there are charts and everything out there that document this, so go do some research"
1. 968 intake has no way to change volume if it did you might have a point but it doesn't. It does have a larger volume plenum.
".3 bar of boost starts at about 4100RPM"
1. There is no way it can make boost without forced air, You can create boost by wind pressure from the cars forward movement (aka Ram Air) but even its gains are questionable as debated for a long time. Also, I think the boost is subject to RPM range as well as load as engines flow air very fast at WOT and you would need to be HAULING to push an engine out of vac. Now, you might get a gain if you are doing say 150mph with a low load or low rpm as the engine doesn't flow as much air at that point in time. Otherwise I would say its all a gimick that suckers in people to thinking it works. I can tell you if it worked we would see it on every N/A race car known to man. I do think we see alot more Ram Air (IE Cart, Formula 1, ALMS) then you see this amazing 968 intake design.
"there are charts and everything out there that document this, so go do some research"
1. 968 intake has no way to change volume if it did you might have a point but it doesn't. It does have a larger volume plenum.
".3 bar of boost starts at about 4100RPM"
1. There is no way it can make boost without forced air, You can create boost by wind pressure from the cars forward movement (aka Ram Air) but even its gains are questionable as debated for a long time. Also, I think the boost is subject to RPM range as well as load as engines flow air very fast at WOT and you would need to be HAULING to push an engine out of vac. Now, you might get a gain if you are doing say 150mph with a low load or low rpm as the engine doesn't flow as much air at that point in time. Otherwise I would say its all a gimick that suckers in people to thinking it works. I can tell you if it worked we would see it on every N/A race car known to man. I do think we see alot more Ram Air (IE Cart, Formula 1, ALMS) then you see this amazing 968 intake design.
http://www.968.net/pressroom/images/...208_45_600.jpg
http://www.968.net/pressroom/images/...208_46_600.jpg
http://www.968.net/pressroom/images/...208_47_600.jpg
10-11-2007, 06:47 PM
#15
Nordschleife Master
First, They are talking about .3bar inside the motor (read as Effective Pressure) not inside the manifold over a single inlet system.
Secondly, They talk about the phase of the intake being in phase with the intake valve so that intake charge at its highest pressure meets an open valve (thus putting more air into the cylinders). However, that is true of every intake system within its tuned range. So really all I read was that the new pipe adds more volume and thus it allows for a larger charge. They say nothing about CFM Distribution or the actual S2 intake design previously.
Secondly, They talk about the phase of the intake being in phase with the intake valve so that intake charge at its highest pressure meets an open valve (thus putting more air into the cylinders). However, that is true of every intake system within its tuned range. So really all I read was that the new pipe adds more volume and thus it allows for a larger charge. They say nothing about CFM Distribution or the actual S2 intake design previously.