MAF for 944 S2??
#31
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Great discussion. We developed the 944S2 MAF kit (it was for a friend for his Cab), it was designed to be stealth so it had to be placed where the stock AFM is located.
What do you guys think a MAF kit with good power gain (for a NA) and great response should cost?
$500 or less?
$700 or less?
$1000 or less?
Keep in mind, when a kit is developed there is R&D cost, dyno cost... and finally customer support cost. The cost must be divided over x number of units.
How many of you will actually purchase a kit?
What do you guys think a MAF kit with good power gain (for a NA) and great response should cost?
$500 or less?
$700 or less?
$1000 or less?
Keep in mind, when a kit is developed there is R&D cost, dyno cost... and finally customer support cost. The cost must be divided over x number of units.
How many of you will actually purchase a kit?
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I would gladly pay over $500 for something reliable, no need for stealth. I would however need to see a before and after maf dyno run on the same car in the same session.
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John,
$500 - $700 for an easy "plug and go" kit that retains most of the original components would be worth it, assuming a 4-5 hp gain with the kit, provided that I match the kit with a freer-flowing exhaust, of course.
Of course the question for you is, can you sell enough of these kits to cover your initial outlay, given that there aren't that many S2's out there, and that number isn't increasing...
-Zoltan.
$500 - $700 for an easy "plug and go" kit that retains most of the original components would be worth it, assuming a 4-5 hp gain with the kit, provided that I match the kit with a freer-flowing exhaust, of course.
Of course the question for you is, can you sell enough of these kits to cover your initial outlay, given that there aren't that many S2's out there, and that number isn't increasing...
-Zoltan.
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We saw power gain in the teens, and we had to work for it.
We plan on doing a second dyno session, we might change the S2 exhaust and use the 951 cat-back. to see what it does.
We plan on doing a second dyno session, we might change the S2 exhaust and use the 951 cat-back. to see what it does.
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Originally Posted by fast951
Great discussion. We developed the 944S2 MAF kit (it was for a friend for his Cab), it was designed to be stealth so it had to be placed where the stock AFM is located.
What do you guys think a MAF kit with good power gain (for a NA) and great response should cost?
$500 or less?
$700 or less?
$1000 or less?
Keep in mind, when a kit is developed there is R&D cost, dyno cost... and finally customer support cost. The cost must be divided over x number of units.
How many of you will actually purchase a kit?
What do you guys think a MAF kit with good power gain (for a NA) and great response should cost?
$500 or less?
$700 or less?
$1000 or less?
Keep in mind, when a kit is developed there is R&D cost, dyno cost... and finally customer support cost. The cost must be divided over x number of units.
How many of you will actually purchase a kit?
John,
I'm curious to know, what size MAF was used for the Vitesse S2 MAF? I know you are more focused on the S2 guys, but on the 944S intake tract, the connector hoses are 3.5". I like the Pro-Tube MAFs that are used for the turbos. Is it the same style?
Also, on the subject of 16V N/A performance.... Have you given any more thought of producing the wasted spark for the S/S2/968.... or what about maybe just a regular coil on plug setup?
Last edited by jgporsche; 02-27-2007 at 02:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by fast951
Great discussion. We developed the 944S2 MAF kit (it was for a friend for his Cab), it was designed to be stealth so it had to be placed where the stock AFM is located.
What do you guys think a MAF kit with good power gain (for a NA) and great response should cost?
$500 or less?
$700 or less?
$1000 or less?
Keep in mind, when a kit is developed there is R&D cost, dyno cost... and finally customer support cost. The cost must be divided over x number of units.
How many of you will actually purchase a kit?
What do you guys think a MAF kit with good power gain (for a NA) and great response should cost?
$500 or less?
$700 or less?
$1000 or less?
Keep in mind, when a kit is developed there is R&D cost, dyno cost... and finally customer support cost. The cost must be divided over x number of units.
How many of you will actually purchase a kit?
Just my opinion.
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Bleucamaro, the MAF kit comes with software.
What sort of engineering are you involved in and where? for $20-25/hr?
What you describe is a MAF conversion using a signal massager to emulate the AFM signal so the DME understands it. This is not the best approach, it has many limitations.
I guess I got the answer to my earlier question. Thank you all for the feedback.
What sort of engineering are you involved in and where? for $20-25/hr?
What you describe is a MAF conversion using a signal massager to emulate the AFM signal so the DME understands it. This is not the best approach, it has many limitations.
I guess I got the answer to my earlier question. Thank you all for the feedback.
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Jesse, In the MAF conversion I can use any MAF, as long as I know the calibration. All I have to do is change the transfer function in the chip. The S2 piping is much simpler than the 944S, however if the MAF sits where the AFM is, there is no problem.
We are setting up the WS on one one of our 968 engines. (the same can be used for S2 and 944S). However, we have no plans yet to bring it to market.
We are setting up the WS on one one of our 968 engines. (the same can be used for S2 and 944S). However, we have no plans yet to bring it to market.
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how much were you thinking for the whole kit? n/a owners are much more reluctant to spend on this type of thing. Having owned a turbo I don't mind forking out for performance on my S2.
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Originally Posted by fast951
We are setting up the WS on one one of our 968 engines. (the same can be used for S2 and 944S). However, we have no plans yet to bring it to market.
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Originally Posted by fast951
We saw power gain in the teens, and we had to work for it.
We plan on doing a second dyno session, we might change the S2 exhaust and use the 951 cat-back. to see what it does.
We plan on doing a second dyno session, we might change the S2 exhaust and use the 951 cat-back. to see what it does.
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Originally Posted by fast951
Bleucamaro, the MAF kit comes with software.
What sort of engineering are you involved in and where? for $20-25/hr?
What you describe is a MAF conversion using a signal massager to emulate the AFM signal so the DME understands it. This is not the best approach, it has many limitations.
I guess I got the answer to my earlier question. Thank you all for the feedback.
What sort of engineering are you involved in and where? for $20-25/hr?
What you describe is a MAF conversion using a signal massager to emulate the AFM signal so the DME understands it. This is not the best approach, it has many limitations.
I guess I got the answer to my earlier question. Thank you all for the feedback.
Also, I believe an analog signal massager done via hardware will provide more accurate information to the DME than changing the A->D conversion in the DME, or by changing the individual cells of the tune. The reason for this is it would make further tuning changes more difficult when other modifications are done.
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Originally Posted by bleucamaro
Also, I believe an analog signal massager done via hardware will provide more accurate information to the DME than changing the A->D conversion in the DME, or by changing the individual cells of the tune. The reason for this is it would make further tuning changes more difficult when other modifications are done.
I disagree with you. A correct transfer function is the only proper way to do the MAF conversion. Having a PB for fine tuning is a good idea as well.
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Originally Posted by jgporsche
I forgot to ask, What changes were made to the chip to gain the power? You are saying power was made in the teens, did you do any other changes other than changing the transfer function? any ignition timing changes? I guess what I am asking, is, was the power that was created, created by performance values in the chip or the AFM to MAF change?
As I stated in my earlier post "We developed and tuned on the dyno a MAF kit for the 944S2". SO yes, we did tune it, not just change the transfer function.
A MAF change by itself on the S2 will not yield power gains in the teens.