MAF for 944 S2??
02-26-2007, 09:47 PM
#17
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Sorry to hijack the thread, but since were on the topic of MAF's....
Is it true that all you really need to make a ford contour MAF work on any early 944 N/A is just an airflow controller and an extra air temp sensor? Like the 2 MAF controllers that LR sell?
Is it true that all you really need to make a ford contour MAF work on any early 944 N/A is just an airflow controller and an extra air temp sensor? Like the 2 MAF controllers that LR sell?
02-26-2007, 09:50 PM
#18
Originally Posted by jgporsche
that'll be awesome. I'll be interested.... keep us informed. I decided to make my own it cost me half the price of the promax kit.
Here's mine:
Here's mine:
I'll expect nothing less than pics, dyno run before, and dyno runs after install.
02-26-2007, 10:05 PM
#20
Race Director
Originally Posted by fast951
Which part of the conversion that intrigues you?
We have been doing MAF conversion for the 944/951 for years now. We took the S2 code, rewrote it to incorporate a MAF transfer function. Actually, we can support many MAF sensors, we just need the sensor calibration and that's it. Once the MAF was in place, we tuned the car on a load dyno to get some performance out of it.
The 944S2 software incorporates many interesting features. While the car is running, unplug the AFM meter, does the car run? Rev it up?
The S2 code is neat to look at, it's lie the beginning of a new generation of processors and programming. I'm not talking about the Fuel and ignition maps, but the software that drives it.
We have been doing MAF conversion for the 944/951 for years now. We took the S2 code, rewrote it to incorporate a MAF transfer function. Actually, we can support many MAF sensors, we just need the sensor calibration and that's it. Once the MAF was in place, we tuned the car on a load dyno to get some performance out of it.
The 944S2 software incorporates many interesting features. While the car is running, unplug the AFM meter, does the car run? Rev it up?
The S2 code is neat to look at, it's lie the beginning of a new generation of processors and programming. I'm not talking about the Fuel and ignition maps, but the software that drives it.
It sounds like it is a fairly straight forward conversion. That also intrigues me.
I wish I had more software engineering under my belt to better understand the software that drives my car...
-Z
02-26-2007, 11:38 PM
#21
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I have had $$ in hand for a good MAF conversion kit for the S2 for over a year, but no one has ever put up a single dyno chart yet (that I have seen). I have personally called or e-mailed several places (including Vitesse), but it seems that there isn't enough peole with $$ in hand to make them produce a kit for the S2. If anyone does get a good proven ( read: dyno charts) kit to market, I'll bite.
James Reeser
89 944 S2
James Reeser
89 944 S2
02-27-2007, 12:15 AM
#22
Temprarily Banned per IB
Originally Posted by maddydaddy
I have had $$ in hand for a good MAF conversion kit for the S2 for over a year, but no one has ever put up a single dyno chart yet (that I have seen). I have personally called or e-mailed several places (including Vitesse), but it seems that there isn't enough peole with $$ in hand to make them produce a kit for the S2. If anyone does get a good proven ( read: dyno charts) kit to market, I'll bite.
James Reeser
89 944 S2
James Reeser
89 944 S2
While I have no interest in hunting down MAF units and putting together 'kits', I will be happy to do MAF chips for most any MAF people want to use. Past couple of weeks I've been working with LR to develop MAF chips, we finished the #30 and am now working on the #36. As mentioned above LR may do a NA kit, but I haven't really discussed this with Dave so I'm not sure what his plan is. But essentially I developed the MAF chips for Lindsey, and any MAF chips I design will be sold through Lindsey. So keep an eye on our forum for updates, especially in the member only section as I detail more about it there. One of your fellow S2 drivers just bought a Maxtronic, I'll be getting yours to you this week, hopefully we can get another dyno soon.
Regards,
Russell
02-27-2007, 01:26 AM
#23
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Sounds awesome! Can't wait to get the Maxtronic going and do some tuning work with the new WB O2 & stuff. 
Keep me in mind if you are ever running down the path of doing a MAF deal for the S2. You know I've been bugging you for one. Not that you've been slacking or anything!
James Reeser
89 944 S2
Keep me in mind if you are ever running down the path of doing a MAF deal for the S2. You know I've been bugging you for one. Not that you've been slacking or anything!
James Reeser
89 944 S2
02-27-2007, 01:41 AM
#24
Temprarily Banned per IB
Originally Posted by maddydaddy
Sounds awesome! Can't wait to get the Maxtronic going and do some tuning work with the new WB O2 & stuff.
Keep me in mind if you are ever running down the path of doing a MAF deal for the S2. You know I've been bugging you for one. Not that you've been slacking or anything!
James Reeser
89 944 S2
Keep me in mind if you are ever running down the path of doing a MAF deal for the S2. You know I've been bugging you for one. Not that you've been slacking or anything!
James Reeser
89 944 S2
Regards,
Russell
02-27-2007, 02:42 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by rberry951
The wide band will sure make life easier, and not so many trips to the dyno! Between you and jesse we should be able to kick out MAF chips for the S and S2 fairly quickly as he has a wideband and Maxtronic as well. And now that I have the transfer function for all the 944 series plotted out well I can start to play with other devices too such as MAP sensors. I'm thinking in terms of using a turbo type TPS with a potentiometer along with a MAP to re-write the code to calculate load based on those inputs. Lots of things in the works. My ultimate goal, and this could be a year or so in the making, is a completely adaptive system where you select preset performance goals and it tunes the car for you no matter what modifications you add or change, under any conditions. But then again three months ago I said the Maxtronic and MaxTune could be a year or two away, and here they are.
Regards,
Russell
Regards,
Russell
02-27-2007, 03:30 AM
#26
Temprarily Banned per IB
Bleucamaro: PM sent. I don't want to turn MacinTek's question into a product thread.
MacinTek: In your original question you mentioned gains from a MAF vs. AFM. When the AFM first came out it was the most accurate way of metering air flow than anything else. Not too many NA cars will flow 300+HP. The biggest reason for a turbo car to upgrade to a MAF is by out flowing the capability of the AFM, as we know the turbo AFM can flow 300+HP. I don't see you ever doing that on any NA car. The biggest gain you are going to get from a MAF on a NA car is responsiveness. The whole procedure of measuring the benefit of any component for a NA car is price. What is the $$/HP gain? We know a good exhaust system is a measurable improvement, and very expensive. So I haven't really encouraged many people to go to a MAF system on a NA car. The dilemma a lot of people fall into is "okay I already spent 3000 on exhaust and intake, what's another $$$ for a MAF while I'm at it?"...
I've seen people with turbo cars pay huge money for MAF systems and end up tossing them and putting the AFM back on because the MAFs themselves were such poor quality that they could not be consistently tuned. That's a real issue with MAFs and I think going dirt cheap on a MAF will not benefit you in the least, rather just cause more headaches down the road.
There was/is a thread going on about an inexpensive conversion for the early cars that use a 12v MAF, last I read it worked fairly well out of the box. If you find something like that that works 'well enough' and fairly consitently, it's easier to tune for. But just because a device has the same voltage scale as the AFM, it is not necessarily using those same numbers to indicate the same actual flow rate. Those inconsistencies are the most difficult to tune around.
Your best luck for a MAF on a NA car is to get an established product. It will cost more, but there's a reason for that. The vendors have to pay more for consistently calibrated units, so they have to charge more for the kits. When vendors say a market may not support a product, I don't think they mean it won't support them financially, I think it's more of a measurement of potential gain per dollar. If they cannot feasibly provide you with a performance gain you can measure, there's no point to them or you.
There will always be those who want to get every ounce of power at any cost. The greater population of owners who modify their cars have to weigh cost/gain. Either it makes sense or it doesn't to the individual.
Regards,
Russell
MacinTek: In your original question you mentioned gains from a MAF vs. AFM. When the AFM first came out it was the most accurate way of metering air flow than anything else. Not too many NA cars will flow 300+HP. The biggest reason for a turbo car to upgrade to a MAF is by out flowing the capability of the AFM, as we know the turbo AFM can flow 300+HP. I don't see you ever doing that on any NA car. The biggest gain you are going to get from a MAF on a NA car is responsiveness. The whole procedure of measuring the benefit of any component for a NA car is price. What is the $$/HP gain? We know a good exhaust system is a measurable improvement, and very expensive. So I haven't really encouraged many people to go to a MAF system on a NA car. The dilemma a lot of people fall into is "okay I already spent 3000 on exhaust and intake, what's another $$$ for a MAF while I'm at it?"...
I've seen people with turbo cars pay huge money for MAF systems and end up tossing them and putting the AFM back on because the MAFs themselves were such poor quality that they could not be consistently tuned. That's a real issue with MAFs and I think going dirt cheap on a MAF will not benefit you in the least, rather just cause more headaches down the road.
There was/is a thread going on about an inexpensive conversion for the early cars that use a 12v MAF, last I read it worked fairly well out of the box. If you find something like that that works 'well enough' and fairly consitently, it's easier to tune for. But just because a device has the same voltage scale as the AFM, it is not necessarily using those same numbers to indicate the same actual flow rate. Those inconsistencies are the most difficult to tune around.
Your best luck for a MAF on a NA car is to get an established product. It will cost more, but there's a reason for that. The vendors have to pay more for consistently calibrated units, so they have to charge more for the kits. When vendors say a market may not support a product, I don't think they mean it won't support them financially, I think it's more of a measurement of potential gain per dollar. If they cannot feasibly provide you with a performance gain you can measure, there's no point to them or you.
There will always be those who want to get every ounce of power at any cost. The greater population of owners who modify their cars have to weigh cost/gain. Either it makes sense or it doesn't to the individual.
Regards,
Russell
02-27-2007, 08:34 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by Z-man
Well, I like the idea of keeping the air intake underneath the nose panel - that's a cooler place to draw air from.
