nenehubert

Ok, after about an hour of searching i found part of what i wanted but not enough.

For the front 3 speakers i want boston acoustics. The only components that they have are 5 1/4" and a tweeter. Now, should i use the factory 3-way crossover? Also, what speaker should i put for the 3 1/2"? I cant find any speakers that arent 2 or 3-way? Would i be able to incorporate a 2-way 3 1/2" along with the other tweeter and the 5 1/4"?

Thanks.

Clint's 944

Where are you looking? A specialty shop should be able to get something together for you...albeit at a premium.

Personally, I would delete the 3 1/2 and go with a 5 1/4 with a tweet. Nobody would know different and the factory did this with some models...not sure which.
Also, I would use the crossover that come with the speakers as it is already adjusted for the cutoffs. The factory cutoff may be different.

Hope this helps..

Robby

I've done quite a bit of research on this... Yes, you could get someone to specially make something for you, but first, let me saw a few things...

The M490 speakers are pretty good- especially for stock- several people here have replaced their old speakers with new, factory M490's, they liked them so much. I used to have complete part # lists & pricess for the 1989 951 & 1995 968 & was seriously considering them. The last 2yrs of the 968 were the best. The front midrange was moved out from behind the armrest & relocated to the front lower corner of the door, where 4x6's had been in normal cars, plus they got 2 amplifiers (one ran the fronts & the other, the rears), the rear speakers had larger X-overs, etc...

As Clint mentioned, the factory did remove the 3.5 & 3-way X-over from some cars- this hurt the system pretty badly... It's surprising how much dif the midrange & X-over made... I just heard a full M490 over Christmas in a 1989 951 w/factory CD player, EQ, etc- I was very impressed w/the SQ & overall power- well, perceived power power...

I've done tons of searching to find an aftermarket 3-way component system. One reason why they work well in these cars is the poor imaging. The later 968 locations w/the midrange seperated further from the woofer, probably helped somewhat. But ,finding a 3-way comp that has a 5.25" woofer proved impossible, &, most 3-way comps w/6.5" woofers were too deep to fit in the lower front door section. This is the only location a 6.5 really has a chance of fitting- they wont go under the armrest- I tried- I even cut the edges off the outer mounting frame on the top & bottom to reduce overall, outer diameter & machined the backside of the door pocket/grill, somewhat. I finally put some 6x8 Infinity Reference components here, but the pocket/grill stuck ot ever so slightly along the bottom edge which interfered slightly w/the door shutting. I didn't like this, so I pulled them & mounted them in the rear, under the 1/4 windows. This worked well btw- no metal had to be cut at all & I made some simple, wooden adapter plates for them- pretty simple...

Diamond Audio makes some really nice, shallow speakers & ALSO has a 3-way add-on kit. This is cool b/c you can buy either a 5.25" OR 4", component set, & then buy thet 6.5" add-on kit- it's very unique in that you plug the X-over of the add-on speaker into the X-over of the original speaker set (or vice versa) & you are using two X-overs & you have a 3-way component system. The S600 is a very shallow speaker (mounting depth is listed at 2.125") & a rep at Diamond Audio said that it was the 6.5" that came in the add-on kit... The S400 can be found for ~$220 on e-bay & the S500 is ~$10 - $20 more- the add-on kit goes for ~$180... Both of these prices are much cheaper than regular. The standard price on this would be ~$800 total. At $400 + S&H, I'm still considering these...

Infinity Kappa 1.7CS 3-way component set would work as Kappas are pretty shallow, but can't get them in the US- evidently, they're a UK speaker...

CDT makes a Slimline series- the EF series (Euro Frame) being the slimline high-end. They also make several 3-way comps, but unfortunately, they do not make the Slimlines in 3-way. I talked to CDT directly, not long ago, & they offered to sell me a 3-way component system for $400- the normal CL641 is usually closer to $500. They said they would exchange the 6.5" Slimline w/the full-depth CL6 woofer & I would also get the TW24 tweeter instead of normal offering in that set. I just found the exact same deal from an authorized dealer for $400 including S&H... I think this is the way I'm going...

Focal makes several 3-way comps, Dyn Audio, JL, MBQ, etc, but all are too deep. Focal does make a slim line, but of course, not in 3-way & I can't find any US contacts to get in touch w/them about it... The total depth from window frame to backside of door panel is less than 2", btw... Spacers can be used- I guess the only limitation is how far out in the car you are willing to allow them to go- I have 968 panels in my 951 though & the map pockets will only allow the speakers/grills to stick out ~1" total...

I have all kinds of pics of this stuff... doors w/out panels showing depths, etc, pics of factory speakers of various years, plus several aftermarket sets, some w/custom pods, etc... if you'd like to see any of them or have any specific questions, please do not hesitate to ask... This has been an extreme source of annoyance to me over the years & I'm hoping the CDT solution will work out well... Of course, I now need to come up w/the money for them, since they are honestly double my original buget. I'm also going to mount the new Kappa 6x8 components in the rear in place of my Reference 6x8 comps. I'd like to be able to get the new CDT 6x9 component back there, but I think it would be a touch too big- oh well, hte Kappas are only ~$130 which is ~$70 cheaper..

Sorry this got so long... I hope I've been of some help to someone...

Robby

Oh, sorry... I meant to mention- I seem to remember some Boston Accoustics that came in 3-way components- I'm almost positive they made them for awhile, but again, the woofer was a 6.5" & IIRC, they were in the $600+ range. When I was looking for all the 3-way comp options I could find, I looked through the Bostons & could not find them- the ADS 3-ways do not appear to be made any longer either... From what I understand, you could find a basic ~3" driver at Radio Shack & use it, but I'm seriously doubtful of the SQ & basic power handling capabilities of such a speaker. Another option would be to get a 4" midrange- I'm pretty sure BA has these...? You could mount the 5.25 where the 4x6 went fairly easily & then mount the 4" in the plastic mounting frame under the armrest using some sort of wooden adapter plate or something. The problem then, would be finding a 3-way X-over. I THINK you could buy the CDT 3-way X-over & use it- speakers do not know what brand the X-overs are & vice versa- of course, the frequencies need to be matched correctly, but this should not be much of a problem- they should be close enough stock. I can't remember how much the CDT X-over goes for...

danny951

wow. very good and detailed information there Robby. I was doing a search and found tihs post. I think what I would like to do is get the 968 door panels (both for looks and speaker flexibility) and do either stock M490s or the CDT option you had described. Do you know how much the M490s are from a dealer? I would like to compare them with the CDT prices. I'm sure there are better sounding speakers than the M490s but you made them sound pretty good. And considering they were made for the car in mind, might be the best solution for me afterall. I plan on powering them with an a/d/s PQ20 amplifier (not the PQ20.2 though unfortunately) that I picked up recently on eBay.

Robby

Danny- I think the only prob w/the factory stuff is buying all the little misc things to go w/them- IIRC, the rear woofers were ~$75/ea, but I'm assuming the last 968 ones might be a touch more- then the fronts are bought seperately & you have ~$30 in tweeters (plus about the same for the rears), then $50 for the 3" speakers, then $70 for the 5.25's, so you're in for $330 right there... you then have to buy the mounting brackets at $50/pr, then the 3-way X-overs, etc.. I used to have all of these things listed & priced, etc, but lost them on my HD... you also have to decide which configuration you're going with- the best, by far, is the latest 968 which has the 3.25" relocated up to the front of the door-

I would start by finding the panels- some people have said that some of the later S2's have had 968 panels in them- not sure, but Nick G has some S2's for sale- maybe he has pics- if they're hte same, as 968 they might be worth getting... Then, you can look around for the speakers used.. OR, just buy a pair of 5.25" Infinity Kappas to mount in the factory plastic front speaker frames & then Kappa 6x8 components for the rear (OR even Kappa 6.5's) & have ~$300 total in speakers & no mouating probs, plus, all hardware, X-overs, etc come w/them... I'm in the process of doing this (except ordering the CDT 3-way's I talked about) & another guy I know is doing the Kappas the exact same way- 5.25 front & 6x8 rear.. It's working well... I think I'm going to order the same amp he just bought- an Alpine V12 F345 b/c it's pretty small for it's power level of 75/ch... The PQ20 is a great amp- I really miss my PQ10... Unfortunately, it was not quite strong enough unless bridged to run 2-channels... therefore, the PQ20 should be about perfect power level... The thing is, IF you go w/factory speakers, you'll always have that weird wiring deal- it's two wires for each positive & negative as opposed to one for each... kind of frustrating, but not that big of a deal... then, you wont need as much power either b/c they're very efficient speakers... of course, they're not as sturdy either & will probably wear out a little faster if putting some good power to them... I have to say, I was VERY close to ordering all of the stock ones- unfortunately, if you buy used, you never know what kind of condition they're really in & if you buy new, you'll spend as much, or more than good aftermarkets... it's really a coin toss... Ahmet's stereo was in an '89 Turbo S, so it wasnt even the latest M490- it really sounded pretty good, esepcially considering the speakers, etc, were all 17yrs old.. Also, on top of that, it was a weak stock stereo- a good aftermarket might power them better & you might not even need an amp. Of course, I'd hate to buy all that stuff & then find out differently, but if you're planning on buying a PQ20 anyway, you could try it w/a good aftermarket HU & see how it sounded... I just don't think the stock speakers would ever give quite as much bass- of course, if you're planning on running subs, then that might make it ok- depends on tons of variables unfortunately... Either way though, at least the factory stuff is decent... you really wont have a bad system no matter which way you go... I'm just the type of person who will think myself to death about stuff like this...

sm

Few questions regarding the 968 front door panels with the forward location for the 3.5" mid-range speaker:

- Will the CDT 6.5" woofer fit under the arm rest of the 968 panel? Even if the mounting depth is ok, will the diameter be correct? It seems pretty tight to me, considering that a 5.25" is the stock size.

- Does the CDT component set come with a 4" mid-range? If so, does that fit in the location for the OEM 3.5" speaker?

- If a car did not come with the 10-speaker option, how can the 3-way crossover be installed?

Thanks.

Robby

I'm going to mount the 6.5" woofer at the front lower section of the panel where the early cars had the 4x6... It would not go under the armrest- actually, the one I'm getting might- the regular 6.5" woofer would not go anywhere in the front of these cars b/c of total depth + diamter, but I'm getting a 3-way component set from a guy who is exchanging the 6.5" Slimline woofer for the normal depth 6.5" woofer- CDT will do this directly too- that's the story on that...

Yes, the CDT midrange is a 4" although some 3-way components have 5.25" midrange- I'm planning to mount the CDT 4" in the 5.25" spot in the factory plastic mounting frame, only I'll have to make a small wooden adapter plate to help out- that shouldn't be too tough- I wont know exactly how to do it until it's in my hands, but I'm pretty sure the 4" will be a little too big to fit where the factory midrange is b/c it's more like 3.25". Now, when they moved this midrange to the front lower section on the later 968's, I'm not sure- it would be easy to mount the 4" there, but I need that spot for the 6.5's- also, I'm not positive, but it's possible that Porsche made the midrange in those cars a hair larger than the earlier 3.25 (or whatever it actually was)- I've seen pics & it just looks a hair larger- it's also got an oval backing plate, so it has been at least slightly redesigned.

As far as installing the 3-way X-over, it depends- are you referring to a factory 3-way X-over? If so, it will fit on the backside of the factory black plastic mounting frame. The factory wiring was wierd though- I never understood it- it has two wires for the positive & two for the negative w/these little plug ends... I don't know the first thing about that...

If you're talking about adding an aftermarket 3-way X-over, then it would completely depend on the specific one- there are so many dif sizes, etc... I'm not sure what I'm going to do w/my CDT X-over until I get it in my hands. I'm actually a little worried about that b/c they are a little large- I've seen much larger though- MBQ, BA, Focal, etc, have all made very large X-overs for some of their speakers- can be tough to mount. I've never had any high-end speakers like those before though- the best I've ever had have been Infinity Kappas, which I think are great & they seem to be coming down in price- great bang for the buck nowdays IMO...

sm

I was referring to using the OEM 3-way crossover on an originally non-10 speaker car. Would you happen to have the wiring diagram for the 10 speaker system?

There's a plug leading from the OEM 3-way crossover that has 6 pins, in addition to two separate wires that go to the 5.25 speaker under the armrest. I imagine 2 of the pins are inputs, 2 are outputs to the tweeter, and 2 are outputs to the midrange.

Any thoughts?

Robby

Sorry, but I don't have the wiring diagram. I do have a pair of 3-way X-overs w/the wires cut short that I could take some pics of it might help, but I do think you're right about what it all is... One good place for info is Kevin Gross' 944 Stereo FAQ which was written by Walt Spector, who has researched these pretty well over the years- he knows more about the stuff up until the late 944 Turbos, but I don't think he is quite as familiar w/the 968 M490's- not sure he kept up w/it as much the last few years, but he did know quite a few technical things... Check it out:

http://reality.sgiweb.org/wws/stereo...cch2_945396522

BTW- what is that in your avatar?

89AZ944

Robby-

thanks for the link to Walt's page, it is one of the better ones I have seen....

Robby

Sure, glad to be of help- nice avatar btw...

Scott Bell

Robby, I realize it has been a minute but do you still have your diagrams with measurements?

Arominus

He hasn't posted in 3 years.