theedge

Ive been trying to bleed my clutch for a couple of weeks on and off now. Ive used every fscking technique short of the two person one, and that never works well anyway. Hell ive even got a speed bleeder on there and thought up a new method involving that to get the bleeder pointed up....

No dice. Still spongy and soft. Both cylinders are brand new (replaced them on the chance that one of the previous ones went bad, even though they were used less than a few k miles and then shelved during the project). The hose was new at the same time as those in Feb? No leaks anywhere. Its the unbleedable clutch. Every time I bleed, I get nice clean fluid, no bubbles, nothing.

So sitting down and thinking, when I did the throwout bearing I didnt use any shims because I didnt get any in the box. So there was front to back play once it was installed, but I figured it wasnt a big deal since the stock pressure plate and old TB didnt have any shims that I remember, and had play. Is the play gonna cause the spongy, soft, unbleedable clutch? Pressure plate is a KEP Stage 2. New everything, new TB, new bolts properly torqued, rebuilt/improved shift fork from Markus B, etc.

I guess im lucky I havent installed the wastegate or cat exhaust. Should make this an easy fix

theedge

Mighty Shilling

oddly, that doesn't look the the 951 throwout bearing that was shipped to me accidentally... shouldn't they have a peg on either side for the fork to catch?

theedge

No it catches on the lip...

Mighty Shilling

Hokay. I'm dumb then.

tod84944

I had the same problem on the last car I converted from auto to 5-speed. From what you are saying, you are getting some clutch action, but way down on the pedal travel???? The first thing I would check, would be the rod on the master cyl from the pedal. You should have just a little movement in the pedal, before you feel the master cyl. Try adjusting the rod out, and make sure the end of the rod is in the master cyl correctly.

theedge

Soft at the top pedal, then it gets harder but still nowhere near what it should be. The rod is at the right length according to clarks garage (147mm+3mm for the firewall).

Dmitry S.

Might just be the way the KEP plate feels. I was totally blown away at how much easier my Centerforce feels than the stock clutch.

theedge

I doubt it... The KEP should be 40% stiffer than stock. Right now its maybe the same as stock, and mushy...

unsigned

Maybe the shims are the issue. The bearing I got came with shims and the car had some on there. I ended up using them all (I think 5) and there was a little play still. If your TO had the same play as mine and no shims are used, I think the direction of force is correct that you would get less pressure plate movement. I'm just not sure that means spongy...

KuHL 951

Just out of curiousity did you try and prefill the clutch MC before bleeding? I had one CMC that never seemed to firm up using a Motive bleeder or not. Before I connected the hard line to the MC I squirted fluid into the blue hose at the reservoir until I had fluid return at the hard fitting. For some reason this worked, I don't know why unless a bubble got stuck at the piston somehow. Using the Motive after this made for a solid pedal feel. Not having shims in there sounds unusual though. How loose was the TO bearing without shims? Maybe the fingers on the KEP are thicker but I used all 5 shims on my new Sachs unit with a stock TO bearing. I hope you find the problem.

unsigned

hmm, it was 5 shims that I used too. 2 stock and 3 from the kit. Anyway, 'bench bleeding' isn't that uncommon for clutch MC replacements. When I did my Maxima 5-speed swap it was the only way to get pressure in the line. I asked the techs about it and they treated me like I was crazy for not doing that 1st off.

theedge

Not quite that, but what I have done is install it completly, get fluid going through the slave, then loosen the hardline nut a bit (1/4 turn or so IIRC) and pump the pedal. Fluid did come out, but no real change in pedal. Also did that at the connection above the bellhousing.

Cant quite remember how loose, but I know it was a bit loose. The fingers are thicker.

KuHL 951

When you prefill the MC are you tightening the hardline when the pedal is partially down? I let the pedal return action pull fluid from the reservoir after reconnecting the blue hose and filling the reservoir. I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not. Not to scare you or anything but you really need those shims if you say yours is 'loose'. Loose is not good and it won't pull the fingers evenly resulting in clutch chatter and premature wear on the fingers and TO bearing.