Tom R.

Zoltan,
Give it up. Hi is just a kid. Remember when you had your first car and thought a set of split fire spark plugs and a Holley 750 on an Edelbrock would make your moms Torino wagon faster than a Vette? He thinks his NO2 equipped S2 is faster than anything out there. If he wants to think he can spank my goat, who am I to say no. He can spank anything he wants for all I care.

One thing I didn’t need at the Zone autox was more power. You should have seen me on my last run. It was all or nothing, I had a lock on second, and had to shave 3 seconds to get first. Coming out of a decreasing radius hairpin using the slow in fast out method of driving I gave the car a bit too much gas. Just a bit! I was fast out. There was no way my 208hp S2 was going to make it inside the next gate, so I just took the four cones that made the right side of the gate down. Hey, 8 seconds is better than off course anyday.

Now if I had nitrous, and was able to engage it while actually trying to control/drive the car instead of taking four cones I'm confident I could have taken seven or nine in one shot.

Seems the only limitation my car had was the grip of the tires. Another 50 hp wouldn’t have given me more grip.

Again, give it up. You cannot win a discussion with someone that already knows it all.

Blue S2

A Lotus Elise doesn't have much HP. It goes fast as anything! Especially at an AutoX. Our cars work more favorably to weight reduction, suspension, and driver ability than HP increase. Suspension work WILL make our cars go faster in an autoX. Driver skill will make our cars go faster at an autoX. It can only go sooo far though and still be effective.

volv4life

Tom,

he never said it was the fastest thing on the planet, he simply said his car would rape yours in straight line acceleration; the s2 could spank your goat, even my volvo could spank your goat. How is this post needed at all?

you guys can criticize all you want, but i have to give credit where its due, fishey went out of the rennlist loop and did something that no one really does with these cars, amidst all the criticizing and produced results.. you can flame all you want, but honestly he's done more to that car then you've probably done total to yours, in your years of ownership.

not all nitrous systems are setup to operate at the push of a button, they can be setup differently such as in the forms of window switch's where they only fire at a certain rpm for a certain amount of time, you can increase torque / power throughout the range or you can increase it only where you may want it most while on a road course or a DE.

Z-man

Oh, I didn't know.

So the question I have then is, has he tried autocrossing using the nitrous?

Tom - I know - I give up. Until he actually uses his car at an autocross, that is...

-Z-man.

Tom R.

When he does, I hope he gets those tires that smoke red. I hope someone is there with my camera for that!!!!!

I think i flat spotted my tires when i did my spin sunday.

Z-man

Fishey, if you're still out there, BEFORE you try autocrossing your NO2 equipped 944S2, try this:

Find a nice empty parking lot, and accelerate up to the middle of 2nd gear - say 40mph or so. Then, simutaneously, hit the NO2 button and crank the wheel HARD to the right or left. Welcome to what happens if you try using NO2 at an autox!!

Later,
-Z-man.

Fishey

I think Volvo4Life said it best in terms of the GTO..


My nitrous system is WOT (Wide Open Throttle) activated (So if its not floored it will never activate) and with MSD RPM activation it only will go on above 3500rpm and you can hit the revlimiter all day long (no fuel cut). On my old setup I made 250wtq at just 3500rpm and 160whp at 3500rpm compared to Stock S2 makes around 170wtq at 3500 and 115whp at 3500. (Text deleted)

Fishey

Do you give maximum throttle too the car when cranking the wheel hard to the right or left at an autoX? If you do you might want to reconsider your tactics.

Z-man

...and if you can make all these claims without EVER actually autocrossing, well, pot, meet kettle.

BTW: there is no need to resort to name calling, Fishey. Debates can get heated, but I take offense to being called retarded. Your offense has been recorded via the 'REPORT POST TO A MODERATOR' button.

Power isn't everything, my friend. Getting it to the ground is what AX is all about. Seriously try my little experiement and tell us if you can keep the car from spinning.

As a matter of fact, yes. If I'm not on the brakes, I'm either judiciously appling the throttle or at WOT, unless a sweeper type turn requires some throttle steering - at that point, I'm feathering the throttle through the turn.

AGAIN I ASK: On what grounds can you lay claims about how effective NO2 is at an autocross if you've never autocrossed a day in your life?

-Z-man.

Fishey

Hey, -Z-man I know the car will spin without nitrous if I turn the wheel at 40mph and floor it. I would expect the results to be the same with nitrous. I mean I don't get your point? I guess your point is that you can you go 40mph in 2nd gear and cut the wheel as hard as you can and floor it without spinning? If you can then you need to reduce your understeer. Also -Z-man the nitrous was the last thing I added to my car after I did Suspension/Brakes/Chassis.

Z-man

No. My point is that if you try nitrous at an AX you will spin the car, like you would spin the car if you cut the wheel at 40mph.

By the time you're at the apex of a turn (Quick definition of APX for those who don't autocross: the point where the car is closest to the inside of the turn) you should be at WOT in most cases. In my non-NO2 case, I can apply the power in a smooth linear fashion. With a NO2 equipped car, the application of power won't be as smooth - once the NO2 hits the cylinder chamber, you will get a jump in power. This jump in power will upset the balance of your car, and result in either a spin, or the driver needing to back off the throttle, both of which will slow you down. If you actually ever tried autocrossing, you'd know this. Side note: many seasoned turbo drivers will actually left foot brake, so they can stay on the throttle in order to stay on boost while slowing down. If they don't apply this technique, the turbo may kick in mid-corner and upset the balance of the car.

-Z-man.

volv4life

why are you two still fighting...

you'd be a fool to say if the car had equal drivers, the same suspension mods, and one had more power that they'd still finish the same.

Makis

I am using K&N, replaced CAT to standard non-CAT system, retained the O2, and upped the fuelling by 3% from the switch on the DME. It works just fine for me with no problems. I suspect if the cone filter is fitted in the place were the standard panel filter is it can be made to flow slightly more air into the engine. Any more air that can be fed into the engine, requires extra fuelling to optimise power. The only worry I have is that the K&N is not effective in dusty environment and not suitable for autox. Luckily I am using my S2 in normal 'clean' street environment.

eohrnberger

I'm confused. If you upped the fuel rate by 3% because the K&N flows freer, wouldn't the AFM take the additional air flow into account and richen up the mixture?

I've read in some threads here that if you reduce the exhaust back pressure, that some of the low end torque will fall off, at the gain of some high end torque. If that's the case, by removing the cat wouldn't you be doing exactly that?

Mind you that I'm not criticizing anyone or anything, but I'm still in the learning phase here.

Makis

The AFM and O2 takes care of the fueling at part throttle and the 3% is not applied with the free flow. However at WOT both O2 and AFM are ignored and standard maps are applied. If you flow more more air through the engine your mixture will be lean which will loose your power. Bringing the mixture back optimum will increase the power.

I have replaced my CAT with standard muffler that was used on early Euro non CAT S2. So the flow is still optimised for low end torque. The benefit of this is that you don't have to worry about the CAT getting clogged up which will definetelly rob you power. I agree that proper de-CAT will rob some low end torque and add a lot more noise but it should give you a bit more top end power. Again fueling will need to be adjusted accordingly for optimal result. Hope this makes my point cleaner.