944 NA 4 piston brake upgrade kit??? $650!!!!
06-05-2005, 05:17 PM
#76
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Tired brake components lead to poor braking. N/a brakes in good check work wonderfully well. Afterall, theyre the same brakes as on a 3.2 carrera, which has 217-231 hp. So is a brake upgrade absolutely necessary for a 3.0 engine conversion? I highly doubt it.
My 86's brakes have nothing on my 84's. Of course both systems were bled properly...the 86 even had new rotors and pads.
My 86's brakes have nothing on my 84's. Of course both systems were bled properly...the 86 even had new rotors and pads.
06-05-2005, 05:32 PM
#77
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Hey Serge,
Do you comprehend the fact that just because something comes from the factory a certain way that doesn't necessarily mean it's the most optimum setup? The factory deals with performance in relation to cost. Why you and the others do not understand this is beyond me.
If the NA brakes are more the enough for the NA and came on the 217 hp 3.2 Carrera (yeah, a 1980+ model year car is a great benchmark for modern performance...) then why don't all Turbo owners just sell their brakes and go with the NA brakes. Or better yet, why is there even a "Big Red" brake kit for 944 Turbos?? Why do those sell so well if the stock brakes are the holy grail.
Have you all lost your mind? If YOU THINK the stock brakes are the holy grail of braking for the NA then fine -- that's your loss. But don't talk as though an upgrade for the NA is some stupid waste of money. I feel like I'm in the twighlight zone -- Rennlisters touting the 944 NA single piston calipers as the ultimate in braking technology.
When I'm further into the corners then you, remember this thread!
Do you comprehend the fact that just because something comes from the factory a certain way that doesn't necessarily mean it's the most optimum setup? The factory deals with performance in relation to cost. Why you and the others do not understand this is beyond me.
If the NA brakes are more the enough for the NA and came on the 217 hp 3.2 Carrera (yeah, a 1980+ model year car is a great benchmark for modern performance...) then why don't all Turbo owners just sell their brakes and go with the NA brakes. Or better yet, why is there even a "Big Red" brake kit for 944 Turbos?? Why do those sell so well if the stock brakes are the holy grail.
Have you all lost your mind? If YOU THINK the stock brakes are the holy grail of braking for the NA then fine -- that's your loss. But don't talk as though an upgrade for the NA is some stupid waste of money. I feel like I'm in the twighlight zone -- Rennlisters touting the 944 NA single piston calipers as the ultimate in braking technology.
When I'm further into the corners then you, remember this thread!
06-05-2005, 05:34 PM
#78
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I agree with matt. I would definately upgrade the brakes on his car. His car might be faster then mine but he would totally get p0wned by my turbo at any track without better brakes. That's right matt ...... p0wned. Muhahaha.
Muhahahaha....
06-05-2005, 05:39 PM
#80
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Have you guys thought of using a different bias valve with this setup. I have the 33/5 on mine now and it gives me a lot more rear brake.... Definately a good upgrade, but you really have to be on top of the car a lot more under heavy braking....
06-05-2005, 05:46 PM
#81
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The upgrade isn't a bad thing - I actually think it's quite nice that the n/a is finally getting some attention. All I'm saying is it seems pretty goofy to have big 4-piston clamps on the front wheels and what you yourself describe as inadequate stock setup on the rear. Why not go all-out and develop a four-wheel kit? Or, as someone has said, go with the turbo brake setup?
For the driving 99.99% of us do, the stock brakes are perfectly adequate. In a *****-out performance shoot-out in the hands of competent drivers, the bigger brakes would be an advantage. Nobody's disputing this. However, I've also been told (unsubstantiated, FWIW) that the Wellwoods require rebuilding about every year as opposed to the stock setup. My stock brakes are in very good condition and original - twenty years later. Granted the seals have probably been changed once or twice, but it comes down to two possible schools of thought:
(1) bigger is better
versus
(2) if it works, why f with it?
Depends on what you want. For my Callaway car that will be driven somewhat infrequently when completed and certainly in more of a. . . well. . . spirited manner than typical of a street car, it makes a certain amount of sense. For a base n/a that's driven as a street car and tracked seldom, I doubt the upgrade is worth the money. It depends what your needs are. . . But don't knock the stock setup - it really is quite good as-is.
For the driving 99.99% of us do, the stock brakes are perfectly adequate. In a *****-out performance shoot-out in the hands of competent drivers, the bigger brakes would be an advantage. Nobody's disputing this. However, I've also been told (unsubstantiated, FWIW) that the Wellwoods require rebuilding about every year as opposed to the stock setup. My stock brakes are in very good condition and original - twenty years later. Granted the seals have probably been changed once or twice, but it comes down to two possible schools of thought:
(1) bigger is better
versus
(2) if it works, why f with it?
Depends on what you want. For my Callaway car that will be driven somewhat infrequently when completed and certainly in more of a. . . well. . . spirited manner than typical of a street car, it makes a certain amount of sense. For a base n/a that's driven as a street car and tracked seldom, I doubt the upgrade is worth the money. It depends what your needs are. . . But don't knock the stock setup - it really is quite good as-is.
06-05-2005, 05:46 PM
#82
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You know, a lot of your brake performance depends on the quality of the brake fluid you are using. If you're going to be driving the car hard, it is not a waste to spend a few dollars on good DOT 5.1 or higher performance brake fluid.
Derek
Derek
06-05-2005, 05:46 PM
#83
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Matt - you're taking this out of proportion. You really don't have to be so defensive. I stated above that I thought it was a good upgrade and I never said the stock brakes were the holy grail.
What I do stand by is the fact that they work well when the components aren't worn, like it's meant to from the factory. "N/a brakes are terrible" is an ignorant statement.
-Serge
What I do stand by is the fact that they work well when the components aren't worn, like it's meant to from the factory. "N/a brakes are terrible" is an ignorant statement.
-Serge
06-05-2005, 05:59 PM
#84
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You know what's funny about this....
I remember back in the day on Rennlist when someone would post "I'm going to turbo/super charge my na" or "I'm going to put a 3.0L / LT1 in my na" people would ALWAYS jump down their throats with "You better upgrade the brakes you fool!"
Now that someone found a way to upgrade NA brakes inexpensive in relation to the alternative, it's "You don't need to upgrade your brakes you fool!"
Haha. My side hurts.
I remember back in the day on Rennlist when someone would post "I'm going to turbo/super charge my na" or "I'm going to put a 3.0L / LT1 in my na" people would ALWAYS jump down their throats with "You better upgrade the brakes you fool!"
Now that someone found a way to upgrade NA brakes inexpensive in relation to the alternative, it's "You don't need to upgrade your brakes you fool!"
Haha. My side hurts.
06-05-2005, 06:22 PM
#85
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This is getting stupid. I am closing this thread and starting a new one. The sale is over tomorrow so I just want to give everyone a chance at the discounted price. We have sold 9 kits so far from phone orders and on the new site. The general conciseness of the people I have talked to is that the people in this thread are being idiots.
I am starting a new one so that people who do have serious questions can ask them in the forum without having to sort through this mess all of you have created.
I am starting a new one so that people who do have serious questions can ask them in the forum without having to sort through this mess all of you have created.
06-05-2005, 08:14 PM
#86
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Wow - this is an interesting thread... I have to read about 6 pages to where Travis has to close it down? Interesting concept.... 
Here is the short and skinny....
Travis has spent a lot of time developing an upgrade. Some folks want it - some don't. If you drive a NA - good for you if you don't want an upgrade...!!!! But if you don't - I really do not understand why some feel compelled to crap all over the folks that do - or Rennbay/Travis?
If you do want an upgrade - or drive on the track - consider the upgrade - it's well worth it...
Is there something I'm missing?
Probably not - as I'm the same guy who was told that 914 brakes in a 914-6 were adequate. Really? Apparently - the person who told me that couldn't "buy a clue". So - I went with 951 brakes. Don't even ask me about my other Porsches with upgrades that the "factory" thought were silly or "not needed" for the US market - or any market.
Thanks Travis for doing this. There are a lot of folks who appreciate what you are doing. I'd be one of them - and I'm guessing I'm not alone...
John D.
Here is the short and skinny....
Travis has spent a lot of time developing an upgrade. Some folks want it - some don't. If you drive a NA - good for you if you don't want an upgrade...!!!! But if you don't - I really do not understand why some feel compelled to crap all over the folks that do - or Rennbay/Travis?
If you do want an upgrade - or drive on the track - consider the upgrade - it's well worth it...
Is there something I'm missing?
Probably not - as I'm the same guy who was told that 914 brakes in a 914-6 were adequate. Really? Apparently - the person who told me that couldn't "buy a clue". So - I went with 951 brakes. Don't even ask me about my other Porsches with upgrades that the "factory" thought were silly or "not needed" for the US market - or any market.
Thanks Travis for doing this. There are a lot of folks who appreciate what you are doing. I'd be one of them - and I'm guessing I'm not alone...
John D.
