Robby

Hey guy's- as for front to rear comparison, piston volume bias, etc, you might want to check this out:

http://www.zeckhausen.com/testing_brakes.htm

It has nothing to do w/944's- they used a 350Z to compare, but, they showed how dif sized front to rear set-ups affected temperature & stopping distances- I thought it was a pretty cool article...

BTW- cool idea for the NA cars... I like the simplicity of it.... Always wondered about those Willwoods- Danno used to say he thought they were a lot lighter than Brembos in equivalent sizes.... Are they?

Robby

The pads you showed on the charts-are they avaiable for Turbo S cars? I'm looking for something w/a very high level of friction for mostly street use- you only have the A-class & E-class on your site- the E-class appear to have low friction levels- unfortunately, the A-class sounds like a horrible street pad... Pagids appear to have low friction levels too, so, I'm afraid to ante-up the ~$400 to try them... Are any of the ones on your first chart considered decent street pads, b/c this is more the level of friction that I would want....>.50.....? I want strong initial bite, no noise, & am not worried about rotor life or dust, really.... My Axis MM;s can't even lock the wheels & take tons of pedal pressure to stop the car- not very reassuring... Who actually makes these pads you're listing?

thanks

Travis - sflraver

The pads are made under the name Polymatrix and they are produced exclusively for Wilwood by Raybestos. I don't think that they make pads with the same compounds for other applications besides the Wilwood series but I may be mistaken.

The A class pads eat rotors, they are loud at low speed braking and they are dusty as all get out. They do one thing well with every other aspect ignored, they stop. Cold, Hot, Wet, Dry... they stop. Thats why they are the race only pad that would not be useable for any type of street use.

I took my setup after I bedded in the A pads for a quick spin a few months back. While cruising back through the toll booth, the A pads were singing quite loudly. The lady in the booth said, and I quote this word for word, "Boy, you needs you some new brakes." I just smiled, handed her my dollar and told here that they were new brakes.

Now the E pads are a totally different story. They have a lower Cf rating but they still have a wide flat temperature range. They are much quieter, they don't eat the rotors and they are not all that dusty. They are the ones I drive around with on the street. The slick thing is, with the one clip hanging pad design, I just switch between the E and A pads whenever I want. Just pull the wheels and they are accessible right from the top of the caliper.

If you want to compare the Polymatrix pad material to something like Pagid you should be able to. The graph posted back in this thread shows the Cf rating vs temp. The closest thing I found on the pagid site was a graph with no reference friction ratings, only temps. Maybe you could call a distributor of Pagid and ask if they have access to the specific Cf ratings vs. Temp. since they don't post it on their site.

Matt H

Not that much but there is a valid point. If you were already in need of a new set of calipers this would be an excellent alternative.

I agree, there is a market for it. I was just pointing out that it has been long agreed that Turbo brakes were overkill on an NA.

Travis, no more NAs for me (soon maybe no more Porsches at all).

You DO NOT NEED 16" WHEELS if your car is an early car. The 15" PDs will clear the calipers. The factory did it on the early Turbos and I happen to have seen it done in person. The Fuchs will not clear them because of the paddle design (in the 15").
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Travis - sflraver

You go out and drive a stock NA and do some hard braking runs then tell me the stock setup is adequate. For street driving, if you don't have to ever stop in a hurry, maybe.

If that's the case then I am still SOL for the Turbo because to my knowledge they never made a 15x8 PD. I run 8 wide on all 4 corners of the turbo. You got me exited there for a second and I thought I had over looked something.

Steve PH

Hmmmmm...
[You go out and drive a stock NA and do some hard braking runs then tell me the stock setup is adequate. For street driving, if you don't have to ever stop in a hurry, maybe.] ??????

As good as the 4 pot conversion sounds, the original sliding caliper design does actually work pretty well. So long as the fluid is changed regularly, the pads are up to scratch and the system as a whole is functioning properly, then the original setup is perfectly adequate for road driving. It even copes with my more enthusiasm than talent style of track driving!

Matt H

Sorry to get you excited Never saw an 8" wide 15" wheel.

Did you know that the first Turbos used the single piston setup, including the race cars? Cool, huh?

You will sell some kits because it is TRICK!!! If I had an NA, I might be interested as well. No doubt it is cool stuff!
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Manning

I know the GT and GTS used the sliding calipers that the NA cars use, but I am pretty sure the GTR and GTP used at least the two piston "S" calipers from the 911.

Matt H

Manning, I am not referring to the GTR or GTP but the first production Turbos and the first cars they raced (like at Nelson Ledges in 84). Either way they did not use the Turbo brakes on the factory race cars at all, to the best of my knowledge.
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Manning

You may be right. I believe that car is still in the area here, may be in the hands of a friend of Dan P's so we may be able to find out for sure. At very least Freddy Baker is in the area and it was his car.

Matt O.

By who? I don't agree. Actually, I HIGHLY disagree. The stock brakes even when I had the 2.7L were inadequate. But then again I'm a newbie.

This is kind of a funny statement. Haha. So if I have you right you can just slap Turbo calipers on an early 944 NA...?

Travis - sflraver

All I know is the brakes on my 86NA were the biggest pieces of crap. I tried 3 kinds of pads, different levels of fluid and everything. At the autox I would have to brake so early before tight pins that it was ridiculous.
When I saw the opportunity to develop this kit I jumped on it. I have 3 autox sessions with the kit and it made all the difference in the world. This last session I came into a pin so hot I made the corner workers standing 50ft away jump back a few steps. On the brakes hard, smooth quick deceleration, no lockup, around the pin and on with the course.
So you guys can say the larger brakes will not make any difference. Say that the NA single piston calipers are more than enough for the NA. All I can tell you is that since I put them on, I have been within .06 seconds of the leading NA in our PCA region. The driver has been autoxing for over 25 years and competing with his NA for 10. He also has limited slip which I lack.
I built the first kit for myself without any intention of offering it as a product. It works so well and is such an improvement that I wanted give everyone the opportunity to use it as well.

Its not "Trick." It's not for looks. It works.

Manning

Thanks for doing it Travis. I look forward to adding these brakes once I sort my budget for mods. Gotta paint the bumpers and sunroof first though.

Porsche-O-Phile

The stock brakes are not that bad either - I can vouch for being able to lock up all four wheels at over 80 mph with the stock brakes. They're certainly not bad to begin with, although this is certainly a very nice upgrade!

Matt O.

The stocks brakes are not that good either - I can vouch for being able to almost roll through a stop sign because my NA brakes would not grab after hard back-road driving at 80 mph.

I could lock up any car with any brakes at 80mph. Is that the requirement for being a good brake?