OUCH!!! this is what is called having a BAD DAY!!!!
09-27-2004, 10:27 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
Heres an example of how some people think.
We have a section of highway known as the Sea to Sky, it runs from Vancouver to Whistler, it's a very twisty mountain route.
There have been a lot of fatal crashes on this highway.
More often than not the cause is crossing the center line and hitting head on, lovely!
The media have branded this road dangerous, the road is not dangerous the ****ing drunken idiots coming back from Whistler partying that cross the center line are dangerous.
I have driven this road many times and on almost every ocassion I have been behind a slow moving car that cannot even negotiate the corners without jerking and weaving all over the place, plain and simple lack of driver skill.
just amazes me that they were issued with a DL.
Perhaps someone should take the Motor vehicle Licensing dept to court and charge them with negligance.
We have a section of highway known as the Sea to Sky, it runs from Vancouver to Whistler, it's a very twisty mountain route.
There have been a lot of fatal crashes on this highway.
More often than not the cause is crossing the center line and hitting head on, lovely!
The media have branded this road dangerous, the road is not dangerous the ****ing drunken idiots coming back from Whistler partying that cross the center line are dangerous.
I have driven this road many times and on almost every ocassion I have been behind a slow moving car that cannot even negotiate the corners without jerking and weaving all over the place, plain and simple lack of driver skill.
just amazes me that they were issued with a DL.
Perhaps someone should take the Motor vehicle Licensing dept to court and charge them with negligance.
09-27-2004, 11:45 PM
#47
Originally Posted by K27
Heres an example of how some people think.
We have a section of highway known as the Sea to Sky, it runs from Vancouver to Whistler, it's a very twisty mountain route.
There have been a lot of fatal crashes on this highway.
More often than not the cause is crossing the center line and hitting head on, lovely!
The media have branded this road dangerous, the road is not dangerous the ****ing drunken idiots coming back from Whistler partying that cross the center line are dangerous.
I have driven this road many times and on almost every ocassion I have been behind a slow moving car that cannot even negotiate the corners without jerking and weaving all over the place, plain and simple lack of driver skill.
just amazes me that they were issued with a DL.
Perhaps someone should take the Motor vehicle Licensing dept to court and charge them with negligance.
We have a section of highway known as the Sea to Sky, it runs from Vancouver to Whistler, it's a very twisty mountain route.
There have been a lot of fatal crashes on this highway.
More often than not the cause is crossing the center line and hitting head on, lovely!
The media have branded this road dangerous, the road is not dangerous the ****ing drunken idiots coming back from Whistler partying that cross the center line are dangerous.
I have driven this road many times and on almost every ocassion I have been behind a slow moving car that cannot even negotiate the corners without jerking and weaving all over the place, plain and simple lack of driver skill.
just amazes me that they were issued with a DL.
Perhaps someone should take the Motor vehicle Licensing dept to court and charge them with negligance.
09-27-2004, 11:49 PM
#48
Nordschleife Master
The media have branded this road dangerous, the road is not dangerous the ****ing drunken idiots coming back from Whistler partying that cross the center line are dangerous.
In addition, have you ever driven a section of road in your P-car, knowing, okay, I'm pushing it pretty hard here.. any harder and I would not be able to safely stop or stay in control if anything popped up..... and then you see some FOOL in an SUV or K-car go around the corner as fast, and you KNOW that they would not be able to stop if anything happens.
Some people don't want to admit that they are going too fast, but it's even worse when they don't want to admit that more experienced drivers in different cars could safely go faster than them...
MATT H: No doubt the two owners had a momentary lapse of maturity.. I'm not disputing that.. but I am saying that if YOU drove a CGT, you'd be absolutley full of **** to say that you would never tap the throttle and go more than a bit faster than you intended. What some of you might not know, and friends of the CGT owner have said, is that the car is VERY easy to speed in. The first 1" of throttle can make the wheels spin..
And the owner's skill level and experience very much DO make a difference in this case. Can you imagine if it had been a 16yr old w/ no DE experience and even less maturity doing the same thing?? He probably would have eaten the armco at 70mph, let alone 120mph.
09-27-2004, 11:50 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by K27
Heres an example of how some people think.
We have a section of highway known as the Sea to Sky, it runs from Vancouver to Whistler, it's a very twisty mountain route.
There have been a lot of fatal crashes on this highway.
More often than not the cause is crossing the center line and hitting head on, lovely!
The media have branded this road dangerous, the road is not dangerous the ****ing drunken idiots coming back from Whistler partying that cross the center line are dangerous.
I have driven this road many times and on almost every ocassion I have been behind a slow moving car that cannot even negotiate the corners without jerking and weaving all over the place, plain and simple lack of driver skill.
just amazes me that they were issued with a DL.
Perhaps someone should take the Motor vehicle Licensing dept to court and charge them with negligance.
We have a section of highway known as the Sea to Sky, it runs from Vancouver to Whistler, it's a very twisty mountain route.
There have been a lot of fatal crashes on this highway.
More often than not the cause is crossing the center line and hitting head on, lovely!
The media have branded this road dangerous, the road is not dangerous the ****ing drunken idiots coming back from Whistler partying that cross the center line are dangerous.
I have driven this road many times and on almost every ocassion I have been behind a slow moving car that cannot even negotiate the corners without jerking and weaving all over the place, plain and simple lack of driver skill.
just amazes me that they were issued with a DL.
Perhaps someone should take the Motor vehicle Licensing dept to court and charge them with negligance.
Ya the reputation that road has is pretty silly. Its tourists, people asleep at the wheel, and morons who've given that excellent stretch of twistyness its bad name. And bad truckers.
09-28-2004, 12:45 AM
#50
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I've always been in favor of some sort of license to speed- at least w/in a certain amount- I KNOW- it would be incredibly hard to enforce, &, just like Rich said, no one wants to admit they can't drive worth a fu**...well...in this case, if you can drive, you have to PROVE it.... What IF people could take driving courses at accredited car control clinics, like, Bob Bondurant, Skip Barber, etc? IF you pass, you can drive faster than posted limits- get some sort of sticker for your plate.... 
I couldn't agree more w/Brandon- I remember taking my DL test- it was RIDICULOUS! I remember everyone telling me the hardest part was PARRALLEL PARKING FFS! I didn't even have to do this.... I simply pulled out of the parking lot, onto a small road- the DMV was in a center- surrounded by a LOT of shops, etc... I drove ~100yds, stopped at the stop sign for the main road, & then turned right.... I drove ~1/4 mile & then stopped at a stop light- turned right onto a 4-lane highway- was barely able to reach the 50mph speed limit before I had to slow down to negotiate a right angled, right hand turn, which took me back into the center- I drove ~1/4 mile & then VEERED into the actual parking lot & parked in a space opposite from the other cars.... that was IT! The biggest thing I had to do was use my TURN-SIGNAL... It actually SCARED me... thinking....if it's THAT easy, who else could be driving(?).... I HATE having new stipulations put on society- new laws to CONTROL us, etc, BUT.... I DO think the standards for getting a license, as far as car control ONLY goes, should be raised- well.... requiring PROOF of liabilty insurance would be nice too- I can't STAND people driving w/out liabilty... WE have to pay UNINSURED motorists coverage for that VERY REASON.....
The stupid, bigger is better trend, scares me too. Consider a stupid, uninsured, person, w/VERY POOR driving skills, who cannot read, driving a worn-out 6500lb SUV (truck, whatever) that should not be on the road anyway, &, tell me how safe you'd feel driving near him... 
oh well.... I doubt itll get fixed tonight... 
I couldn't agree more w/Brandon- I remember taking my DL test- it was RIDICULOUS! I remember everyone telling me the hardest part was PARRALLEL PARKING FFS! I didn't even have to do this.... I simply pulled out of the parking lot, onto a small road- the DMV was in a center- surrounded by a LOT of shops, etc... I drove ~100yds, stopped at the stop sign for the main road, & then turned right.... I drove ~1/4 mile & then stopped at a stop light- turned right onto a 4-lane highway- was barely able to reach the 50mph speed limit before I had to slow down to negotiate a right angled, right hand turn, which took me back into the center- I drove ~1/4 mile & then VEERED into the actual parking lot & parked in a space opposite from the other cars.... that was IT! The biggest thing I had to do was use my TURN-SIGNAL... It actually SCARED me... thinking....if it's THAT easy, who else could be driving(?).... I HATE having new stipulations put on society- new laws to CONTROL us, etc, BUT.... I DO think the standards for getting a license, as far as car control ONLY goes, should be raised- well.... requiring PROOF of liabilty insurance would be nice too- I can't STAND people driving w/out liabilty... WE have to pay UNINSURED motorists coverage for that VERY REASON.....
The stupid, bigger is better trend, scares me too. Consider a stupid, uninsured, person, w/VERY POOR driving skills, who cannot read, driving a worn-out 6500lb SUV (truck, whatever) that should not be on the road anyway, &, tell me how safe you'd feel driving near him... oh well.... I doubt itll get fixed tonight...
09-28-2004, 12:56 AM
#51
Nordschleife Master
The problem is most DMV's hire slow pokes as driving instructors. Some of the driving instructors here should not have driver's licences.. yeah it's important to stress safety, but car control is just as important and in the VAST majority of driver's exams, there is no road test that involves driving on the highway!!!!!
I think we should totally overhaul our driver's licencing programs. We should do what the germans do. 18 minimum age. and it would cost thousands to get your licence. can't afford it? get a job.
And no matter how rich you are, you can't buy off the final road test examiner.. if you fail, you can't drive! end of story.
We've had a small issue out here with rich asian's buying off road testers!!!!
I think we should totally overhaul our driver's licencing programs. We should do what the germans do. 18 minimum age. and it would cost thousands to get your licence. can't afford it? get a job.
And no matter how rich you are, you can't buy off the final road test examiner.. if you fail, you can't drive! end of story.
We've had a small issue out here with rich asian's buying off road testers!!!!
09-28-2004, 12:59 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by Robby
I've always been in favor of some sort of license to speed- at least w/in a certain amount-
in the auto world, it would be: right lane only, right 2 lanes only, all lanes, etc.
after you pass higher and higher proficiency exams, you get a marker for your car that shows which lanes you are approved for. interesting......
09-28-2004, 01:16 AM
#53
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they're a little gung-ho when it comes to speeding up here IMO, i got caught doing 98 in a 60 and that's an automatic court appearance and "supposedly" a 15 day license suspension along with a fine.. and all for what? sparse traffic, 4 lane highway and lots of light.. that car was just gettin warmed up!
and about the cgt.. how many are actually out there.. it's not like a sunfire where the cops would'nt be able to identify it b/c there are about 10,000 of em in Van hehe so if he sped off chances are they just pull registration and go pay everyone in van a visit! cause they're THAT bored
and about the cgt.. how many are actually out there.. it's not like a sunfire where the cops would'nt be able to identify it b/c there are about 10,000 of em in Van hehe so if he sped off chances are they just pull registration and go pay everyone in van a visit! cause they're THAT bored
09-28-2004, 01:16 AM
#54
Nordschleife Master
In europe, most trucks have stickers that show what thier maximum speed is. like 60 80 or 100.
Unfortuneatley, I think it would be extremely difficult to be able to enforce and legistlate such an idea... not impossible, but probably not worth the hassle.
Also, too many "captain safety's" out there who would boycott it.
Unfortuneatley, I think it would be extremely difficult to be able to enforce and legistlate such an idea... not impossible, but probably not worth the hassle.
Also, too many "captain safety's" out there who would boycott it.
09-28-2004, 01:54 AM
#55
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Brian- that would be cool.... there would have to be some sort of car control clinic that was approved & would have to be implemented fairly, in all geographical locations AND be affordable- the rich should not be the only ones allowed to drive- I agree w/Rich's point on getting a job, but, nothing should be out of reach entirely for ANYone- driving should not be only for certain financial brackets- well- not anymore than it already is.... Just b/c someone is rich, does not mean they can drive better than someone who is NOT. $ should not be THE issue & should NOT eliminate anyone. However, it should NOT be up to the Governement to PAY for this- then it would just be the middle working class- THEIR TAX $... It should be paid for privately, but, be affordable- I'm thinking there could be standardized classes (would STILL cost something) & places like Bob Bondurant, Skip Barber, etc, could have similar accredited programs- people who wanted too, &, could afford too, could use them....
It's a cool idea, but, I doubt it would ever work- too much BS- we are a country in which it's easier to live by NOT working than by working.... One of the quickest lines in any situation is "I'LL SUE YOUR ***" Hell... look at some of the stuff that happens. A girl sues McDonalds b/c SHE spilled a cup of hot coffee on her -----! "The coffee was to blame...." A kid hangs out a dorm window & takes a pi**- the window frame breaks & the kid drops ~4 stories- sues the univeristy- I guess ALL dorm windows are supposed to be strong enough to support the average male whenever one wants to hang out of it & take a leak- would not matter.... if it supported a 200lb body, then, someone who weighed 300lbs would try it & it would break & they would cry "injustice." A kid climbs a 10ft high fence to swim in a pool late at night- LONG after close- the gate is locked- he dives into the shallow end & breaks his neck- the city is sued b/c the #'s were not clearly readable in the dark. A man pi**es in the middle of a Lowes (or Home Depot, etc) & then slips in his own puddle- sues the store for having wet floor. Another man brings a SNAKE into a Lowes (or Home Depot) & hides it in the lumber- gets bit by it & sues the place for having the snake there (IIRC, HE was caught by video cameras though....not sure what happened). A woman allows her ~3yr old child to get into a bottle of pills- the kid swallows some & dies- the pharmacy is sued for not having easy enough to use child-proof caps... A few weeks ago, I heard about a mother who sued a place when somethng happened to her child- she sued them for not posting that SHE was supposed to watch out for her own child in the place... I guess mothers need to be told specifically wen to watch their children. Hospitals are not allowed to turn people away- If someone wants to ride a motorcycle w/OUT a helmet, it should be their choice- but- by the same token, the hosptals should be allwoed to turn such a person away IF that person can not pay for their serivces.... wont happen, unfortunately.... Until Americans start to take responsibilty for their OWN actions.... learn to supervise their OWN children, such laws & decisions will continue to made FOR them. Their are some VERY smart people in this world, but, I'm afraid they're FAR outnumbered... We are being protected from ourselves w/these BS laws- are all speed limits BS? No, of course not, BUT, MANY are.... most of the school zones around here are RIDICULOUS... some are on major highways & the kids are not allowed to be NEAR the roads. WHY then, is there a 15mph speed limit there? I mean, IF as child somehow wonders out to the main road, then, it's either the childs fault (depending on age- somewhere in there is an age of awareness & it's FAR YOUNGER than 18 for most semi-intelligent people) OR someone who was SUPPOSED to be watching them.. Some of our laws are ridiculous... we, as a society are being controlled by the MINORITY... the minority is the HORRIBLE driver, whom the speed limits are often made for. The minority controls schools so that kids can't pray or organize religious meetings... well... i'm SO sorry that a few kids might not feel 100% included..... why does that mean that the majority has to suffer for it? Seems that way w/just about everything anymore- everyone feels they have the right to NOT be offended- that there is something somewhere that gaurantees them that they should NEVER have to suffer even the slightest discomfort or unpopularity, etc, & that IF they do, they can sue.... it's sad really.... w/such things happening, how could we expect speed limts, traffic situations, etc, to be any different...?
It's a cool idea, but, I doubt it would ever work- too much BS- we are a country in which it's easier to live by NOT working than by working.... One of the quickest lines in any situation is "I'LL SUE YOUR ***" Hell... look at some of the stuff that happens. A girl sues McDonalds b/c SHE spilled a cup of hot coffee on her -----! "The coffee was to blame...." A kid hangs out a dorm window & takes a pi**- the window frame breaks & the kid drops ~4 stories- sues the univeristy- I guess ALL dorm windows are supposed to be strong enough to support the average male whenever one wants to hang out of it & take a leak- would not matter.... if it supported a 200lb body, then, someone who weighed 300lbs would try it & it would break & they would cry "injustice." A kid climbs a 10ft high fence to swim in a pool late at night- LONG after close- the gate is locked- he dives into the shallow end & breaks his neck- the city is sued b/c the #'s were not clearly readable in the dark. A man pi**es in the middle of a Lowes (or Home Depot, etc) & then slips in his own puddle- sues the store for having wet floor. Another man brings a SNAKE into a Lowes (or Home Depot) & hides it in the lumber- gets bit by it & sues the place for having the snake there (IIRC, HE was caught by video cameras though....not sure what happened). A woman allows her ~3yr old child to get into a bottle of pills- the kid swallows some & dies- the pharmacy is sued for not having easy enough to use child-proof caps... A few weeks ago, I heard about a mother who sued a place when somethng happened to her child- she sued them for not posting that SHE was supposed to watch out for her own child in the place... I guess mothers need to be told specifically wen to watch their children. Hospitals are not allowed to turn people away- If someone wants to ride a motorcycle w/OUT a helmet, it should be their choice- but- by the same token, the hosptals should be allwoed to turn such a person away IF that person can not pay for their serivces.... wont happen, unfortunately.... Until Americans start to take responsibilty for their OWN actions.... learn to supervise their OWN children, such laws & decisions will continue to made FOR them. Their are some VERY smart people in this world, but, I'm afraid they're FAR outnumbered... We are being protected from ourselves w/these BS laws- are all speed limits BS? No, of course not, BUT, MANY are.... most of the school zones around here are RIDICULOUS... some are on major highways & the kids are not allowed to be NEAR the roads. WHY then, is there a 15mph speed limit there? I mean, IF as child somehow wonders out to the main road, then, it's either the childs fault (depending on age- somewhere in there is an age of awareness & it's FAR YOUNGER than 18 for most semi-intelligent people) OR someone who was SUPPOSED to be watching them.. Some of our laws are ridiculous... we, as a society are being controlled by the MINORITY... the minority is the HORRIBLE driver, whom the speed limits are often made for. The minority controls schools so that kids can't pray or organize religious meetings... well... i'm SO sorry that a few kids might not feel 100% included..... why does that mean that the majority has to suffer for it? Seems that way w/just about everything anymore- everyone feels they have the right to NOT be offended- that there is something somewhere that gaurantees them that they should NEVER have to suffer even the slightest discomfort or unpopularity, etc, & that IF they do, they can sue.... it's sad really.... w/such things happening, how could we expect speed limts, traffic situations, etc, to be any different...?
09-28-2004, 03:38 AM
#57
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K27 et al - I drive the Sea to Sky a LOT every year - probably over 100 times back and forth to Whistler and strange enough, the worst accidents I see occur when the weather is sunny, clear, and the road in great shape. It's the DRIVERS and really bad judgement in most deadly accidents on this road. Everything from Superbikes that missed by "that much" to the most recent crash 2 weeks ago where a Toyota 4Runner tried to get by a 5 ton truck on an off camber decreasing radius uphill turn at the end of a passing lane. Just plain dumb, bad judgement - 4Runner ran headon offset crash into a newer Pontiac sedan, which then spun into the 5 ton truck - amazingly no fatalities reported.
BTW -that is a typical section of the Sea to Sky hwy in my avatar! Driven the way it should in the right cars too I might add
BTW -that is a typical section of the Sea to Sky hwy in my avatar! Driven the way it should in the right cars too I might add
09-28-2004, 12:41 PM
#58
but I am saying that if YOU drove a CGT, you'd be absolutley full of **** to say that you would never tap the throttle and go more than a bit faster than you intended.
As to going faster than intended that is the biggest reach argument for speeding I have ever seen. If you are arguing that this person has driver skill then the argument about faster than intended is null and void. It is a joke and you know it. Your agenda is that you dont like speed limits or think they should be changed. OK, I have no problems with that, HOWEVER, the laws are the laws. If you cant control the speed of your car you shouldnt have a license.
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09-28-2004, 01:14 PM
#59
Nordschleife Master
By "faster than intended" I should have written: "Conciously go faster than legal speed limit because conditions permit it"
I did not mean to imply an inability to maintain speed. he was speeding and he knew it. My agenda was to argue that people can safely drive well above the posted speed limit under certain conditions.
If he had been unconciously speeding, then I agree with you that he should have his licence pulled.
But that was not the case. Thier biggest faux pas was not slowing back down before the bend in the highway and getting clocked by the five-oh. And doing so during a time of day when there was probaly too much traffic on the road. I don't know, I wasn't there.. so none of us can really say how safe it was. Obviously the cops caught them so they were playing for longer than they should have been, and I support them getting a temp licence suspension.
And I don't know you Matt, but I still contend that if you owned a CGT, you would at some point in time open her up, well beyond the posted speed limit..
I did not mean to imply an inability to maintain speed. he was speeding and he knew it. My agenda was to argue that people can safely drive well above the posted speed limit under certain conditions.
If he had been unconciously speeding, then I agree with you that he should have his licence pulled.
But that was not the case. Thier biggest faux pas was not slowing back down before the bend in the highway and getting clocked by the five-oh. And doing so during a time of day when there was probaly too much traffic on the road. I don't know, I wasn't there.. so none of us can really say how safe it was. Obviously the cops caught them so they were playing for longer than they should have been, and I support them getting a temp licence suspension.
And I don't know you Matt, but I still contend that if you owned a CGT, you would at some point in time open her up, well beyond the posted speed limit..
09-28-2004, 05:39 PM
#60
Thier biggest faux pas was not slowing back down before the bend in the highway and getting clocked by the five-oh.
I agree that you can drive well above the posted speed limit and still be relatively safe. Hell, try I-355 in Chicago, it is a 55 that move at 10mph in the morning and 80+ after 2200hrs. However, that doesnt change the fact that 120 in a 55?(dont remember) with another car doing similar is indeed street racing. If it isnt street racing what is it? Two guys having too much fun on the street, is there really any difference?
Lastly, I can assure you that I would haul some serious *** in a CGT but it wouldnt be on the street. If you can afford the CGT you can afford some DE days, hell you could rent the whole fing track!
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