Mighty Shilling

Okee, here is what happened. I took the car apart again, cleaned the gaskets off, and took an hour doing it. So, I figure now, that there is 100% absolutley no gasket remaining on either the block or the water pump, there is no way in hell it'll be leaking.

I put her back together, fill her with fluid, check the timing and the tension, and turn the key. Yeah, she starts with no problems...until the leak starts again, from the water pump. Now I'm angry. 2 installs on this BRAND NEW water pump. still leaking.

While researching, I hear something about an update for the water pump in 1987ish, where the turbo water pump was put on all 2.5L engines, with a blockoff plate for the turbo coolant line. The pump I recieved new from un-named distributor (don't wanna seem like I"m flaming them, cuz I have nothing but respect for this company's customer service) doesn't have this setup.

I call up my Porsche tech, and he tells me that it sounds a lot like the mating surfaces of the water pump /engine block are not flush. Also, he confirms the updated water pump thing i've heard. SO...I go to Porsche Parts at the dealer, and ask how much for the updated pump...they tell me it's $75.00 or so cheaper than what I'd paid at the un-named distributor.

I called them up, and asked about the updated pump, and he tells me they are pretty much the same and I could use the turbo pump if I'd wanted. Also tells me it sounds like my block must be dented, and it's very bizzare for the water pump to not be as it's brand new. So, he tells me to pull it apart and remove the pump just to make sure. Fine by me. I just want this to end, and to have a leak-free, RUNNING 924S. I'm going thru Porsche withdrawl here.
He tells me that once I see if it's flat or not is whether or not he'll send me a new one. I just told him that I'd ask for a refund if it's not working, and he said it's fine.

I think I'm going to go with the Porsche pump, install it myself, and just be SICK of doing the water pump. I have no clue how long it's been since I've driven the Porsche, but I know it's been a while.

But the people at the distribution place who's name I'm keeping secret did do everything they could to keep me happy. they were very nice, and professional, and run the way a company should be IMHO...

Anyone need their water pump done? I can do it in an hour now....j/k

Chris_924s

The 924S came with the turbo pump from the factory- It will have a white plastic block off plate that looks like a hose should be attached to it, but wont.

Sounds like you may have gotten a rebuilt pump that's bad. I have replaced waterpumps before..

Here's the story..

I put a rebuilt WP on a 92 Taurus as it was losing coolant from the weep hole. Run to Auto Zone and buy a 1 year warrantee rebuilt WP. Put it together and it leaks, bad impeller.
I go back to AZ for a replacement, lucky me- 1 left. I put it on and it still leaks. Bad bearings.
I go BACK to AZ for a lifetime warrantee unit, install it and it works. Worked fine until my EX ran the engine dry of oil and cracked the block.

Moral is- Rebuilt WP's are OK, but they do fail right out of the box. Get a replacement WP, and opt for the Turbo with the block off plate.


Waterpump in an HOUR!! You da MAN!!! You can now start your own cottage industry replacing them..

Granite 944

Man, thats a big bummer!

I know the wp gasket is a rather thin gasket. The gasket I installed was about .030" thick, IIRC. I guess that there could be a problem with warpage. I would think the pump would be the culprit in that case, I doubt its the block. Also watch how you torque it up (6ft lbs.) and sequencing. Maybe in the process of changing the original wp, something smacked, scarred or ground away the mating surface of the block, providing a good leak point? How bad is it leaking? If it is a really slight leak, you might try running the car for a few hundred miles and see if it will seal up on its own. I think it might, in the the case of a very minor leak after the gasket has a chance to go thru a few heat cycles, and swell (just a possiblility?). If you go with the updated/turbo pump, don't forget you'll have to trim out the rear timing belt cover to accept the belt gaurd/larger idler roller, if it hasn't been done already. You could also try making your own pump gasket out of a little thicker material (maybe .060"?). Pics just for additional visuals and cautions. Good luck!

Pump #1: a worn out, non-updated pump. This is the one I needed to replace originally, on my '83.

Pump #2: a new "rebuilt" updated pump. Note that pump pulley is narrower, must have been from an old style pump? Not a good rebuilt pump. The timing belt rode about .1" to the inbd side of it. I took it back off due to excessive belt whine/wear after 350 miles on it. I didn't notice it on the intial install. Do make sure your timing belt is making full face contact with the pump's pulley, and not riding off of it a little. All shoulders on pulleys/rollers should align.

Pump #3: A brand new updated pump. Currently running this one.

ahofam123

There are two main differences between the turbo pump and the n/a pump. 1. The turbo pump has the hole for cooling the turbo, 2. the turbo pump has the belt guard to protect the timing belt from hitting itself. Either pump can be used on an n/a.

Mighty Shilling

Ok. my "new" pump as it said it was when I ordered it came in a box, in a bag and such. Anyway, it was a freaky combination of Pump number 1 and number 3 in the above picture. It didn't have the hole for the turbo coolant line, it was just flat there, but it did have the studs for the gaurd rail that keeps the timing belt from hitting itself.

ALSO, something I didn't tell the above distributor on the phone or post on here yet, when I took it off this last time, It looked like it had been dropped and a corner of it was dented in, and created a little "bulge" in the mating surface on the pump, which the area is circled in red in the picture uploaded. Stupidly, I didn't take a picture of this, nor instantly call up the above distributor and ask for a different one, I just took a dremel to it and made it as level as possible. This is mistake number 1 for me. however, I am just gonna order one of the updated turbo ones from Porsche and put that on.

BTW, did you know that at the dealer, a new water pump is $175.00? this is a little nugget of wisdom I learned today....another thing that angered me as I paid $230.00 for a defective "new" obsolete unit.

pete944

$175 for a new, not rebuilt pump? That's an excellent price. What dealer? Would they honor that price on a mail order? At that price I may have to buy one to keep in reserve for a few years.

Mighty Shilling

Stevinson's Imports.... I don't know if that's the employee price (as I sometimes still get my discount as well as tools loaned to me) or if that is what they are charging for everyone. But the phone number is 303-794-3550. The persons to talk to are Kourtney Woods, or Denise Wisler. they are great. However, they don't stock the water pump normally, so they are gonna ship it in. I'll mine tomorrow...and I beleive they offer a 10 percent PCA discount, but you must ask for it.

Granite 944

That IS a good price! I've seen a guy on ebay selling new pumps for close to that, from time to time,but a dealer price….I’ll keep that in mind.

Is the area you used the dremel on where the leak is coming from?

For future reference, you might consider using a flat file on something like that, other than using a dremel. I think you'd have much better control of the triming, and can keep it pretty darn flat to the machined surface better?

Also, what I said earlier about a thicker gasket, may affect the alignment of the pulley to the belt, so just keep that in mind if for some reason you go there.

Charlie

Porschephile,
Did you decide on how you are going to seal the pump? I responded in your previous thread, not sure if you read it or not. I always put a thin coat of blue silicone on both sides of the gasket, bolt the pump up and let it dry for a few hours. I personally would not use the Loctite 574, I know it is used metal to metal, not sure about using with a gasket.

Techno Duck

944Pete, if they honor that price through mail order please let me know. When i did the front end service on my car, it took 2-days due to the fact i was running back and fourth between my fathers shop and Silver Star Porsche of Rosyln NY (20 miles away...45 minute drive almost). We had originally gotten a Laso rebuilt waterpump (before i knew any better). My fathers wrench said that rebuilts arent anywhere near the quality as new pumps. So ran back to the dealer, dropped the $350 for the new pump and drove back to the shop. Even with my fathers dealer discount (10% any part) it was still horribly expensive. My father was amazed at how expensive they were. Anyway about 4 trips back and fourth to the dealer to get the right rollers...and the updated pump rail...etc, i finally had everything i needed. What a damn headache! Over those two days i learned the importantance of having a working "parts getter" car.

Mighty Shilling

Charlie, I did read your thread about the blue sealant. I tried this time to go the route of no sealant whatsoever, as I heard from some of the Porsche techs, and some other people.... there was nothing but the gasket and the 11 nuts and bolts torqued to 6 ft/lbs sealing this pump to the block.

Oh yeah, and for whomever is doin anything like this, don't drop the plastic roller for the timing belt that mounts to the water pump...it breaks easily and costs a lot...

Jason @ Paragon Products

Hey, I don't mind admitting we're the retailer here. The pump was indeed a new unit and I was not aware of any damage to the unit either before installation or when we spoke on the phone the other day. I wish I had know previously because it's difficult for us to return items to our supplier when they've been modified. I just called Porsche for grins and they show a list price for a new Turbo pump to be $431.63 and rebuilt at $338.52. I realize most dealerships discount but $175 would be less than dealer cost.

Jason @ Paragon Products

On another note, we do off the Turbo Pump if anyone wants to go that route...we have the block off plate kit as well.

http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...106.021.10.htm

Granite 944

and a mighty fine pump at that! # 3 in pic above. Thanks Jason!