Bad day - is this totaled?
#61
A small word on 'salvage' titles. Check your state and local laws regarding 'salvage' titles. Alot of cars that receive these titles may not be legal for use on highways, at least that's the law in KS. The salvage titles in KS, and the car's registration for that matter, state 'not for highway use'.
Back to the damage portion of this thread...
Start pricing out aftermarket parts, print off pages so you can have these prices and make a list to go over with the insurance adjuster. The adjuster will only have Porsche OEM prices. If you take the Porsche prices, just as an example, a single fender can run you $600... You can get a [b]pair[b] of fiberglass fenders for $400-ish. So, I'd suggest if you wish to keep the car, start tracking down some of the parts used. When the adjuster tells you that a complete passenger door costs $2500, then tell him you can get one for $300 shipped/used(or however much you found one for). At this point they normally ask you if you'd accept used parts, tell them 'yes'. Used cookie cutter for $50 shipped and a tire for it will still be just a percentage of the price of a new cookie.
This is how I ended up saving my car. The original estimate's were in the $5500-6500 range, using Porsche parts. I was able to pocket nearly $4000 to do the repair using used and fiberglass parts, which kept the damage estimate under the 75% damage value that totals the car.
Back to the damage portion of this thread...
Start pricing out aftermarket parts, print off pages so you can have these prices and make a list to go over with the insurance adjuster. The adjuster will only have Porsche OEM prices. If you take the Porsche prices, just as an example, a single fender can run you $600... You can get a [b]pair[b] of fiberglass fenders for $400-ish. So, I'd suggest if you wish to keep the car, start tracking down some of the parts used. When the adjuster tells you that a complete passenger door costs $2500, then tell him you can get one for $300 shipped/used(or however much you found one for). At this point they normally ask you if you'd accept used parts, tell them 'yes'. Used cookie cutter for $50 shipped and a tire for it will still be just a percentage of the price of a new cookie.
This is how I ended up saving my car. The original estimate's were in the $5500-6500 range, using Porsche parts. I was able to pocket nearly $4000 to do the repair using used and fiberglass parts, which kept the damage estimate under the 75% damage value that totals the car.
#62
RobbyK know what you mean about the sienna. I remember polishing it about 10 years ago and kept trying to remove a light blotch on the hood. When the patch started moving, I finally realized I was seeing the reflection of the clouds in the paint. Anyway, the paint has started to dull and fade lately, so a complete paint job is probably called for. I guess that would cost somewhat more.
#63
Jack, just as salvage titles vary from one state to the next, so do insurance regs. In NJ the insurance company MUST use new factory parts if they fix your car, to use used parts you'd have to let them total it and then buy it back.
#64
Jack, thanks for the parts advice. It is legal to drive a car with a salvage title in Tennessee.
Dave I'm not sure about the body shop using new or used parts. Seems they have to tell you if they don't use new parts, but I don't think that puts you into a salvage title.
Dave I'm not sure about the body shop using new or used parts. Seems they have to tell you if they don't use new parts, but I don't think that puts you into a salvage title.
#65
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
I respectfully disagree. I can personally attest to the build quality and strength of the 944 to be superior to that of a comparable Honda. See these photos? That was me. My passenger and I came out of it unscathed. Identical accident appeared on the news only to a Honda Accord later that same year and both occupants were rushed off in critical condition. The "greenhouse" gave in completely.
I respectfully disagree. I can personally attest to the build quality and strength of the 944 to be superior to that of a comparable Honda. See these photos? That was me. My passenger and I came out of it unscathed. Identical accident appeared on the news only to a Honda Accord later that same year and both occupants were rushed off in critical condition. The "greenhouse" gave in completely.
They are wonderful cars, but they are NOT an example of high build quality. I'm not dissing the car, but let's at least be honest about what we're dealing with.
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
George, having a mere clutch job professionally done on these cars already exceeds what some of them are worth, does that mean we shouldn't keep them?
George, having a mere clutch job professionally done on these cars already exceeds what some of them are worth, does that mean we shouldn't keep them?
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
Not collectible to whom? If I put my 951 cab on eBay at this time I'm quite certain it would garner interest as a collectible. Time will tell how long until the others appreciate as well, and FWIW only 5,500 U.S. spec 944 cars were imported to North America in 1983.
Not collectible to whom? If I put my 951 cab on eBay at this time I'm quite certain it would garner interest as a collectible. Time will tell how long until the others appreciate as well, and FWIW only 5,500 U.S. spec 944 cars were imported to North America in 1983.
To call an 83 NA a collectable is a mighty big stretch. When was the last time you heard of someone stripping an 84 944 to the bare metal and restoring one? For that matter, how many 951s have you heard of someone doing this?
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
The fact that you bought a $500 944 to play with does not make all 944s cheaper to buy than what Steve has in this car. Of course, you would only know that if your 944 was a daily driver.
The fact that you bought a $500 944 to play with does not make all 944s cheaper to buy than what Steve has in this car. Of course, you would only know that if your 944 was a daily driver.
#67
Steve, you can get a door from Kempton's in FL or Parts Heaven in CA for around $200-$500, depending on condition. A brand new quarter panel cost me $665 in 1998, if you can figure a used cost from that. In all, I'd say you're looking at maybe $1K in parts unless you take up Ken's generous offer.
Look around for lesser known body shops that don't deal primarily with insurance claims. These are usually more resourceful and accustomed to working with used parts on older cars, etc.
To give you an idea, the total bill, including paint, to R/R the right rear quarter panel on my 83 back in 1998 was $2,081.75. This was done at the dealer, in Louisville, KY.
Granted you'll need a door put in and some straightening done to the door jamb, etc., but the paint work I had done included blending the door, and amounted to 9 hours plus $164 of Spies Hecker paint.
And you already know how inflated dealer pricing is.
Look around for lesser known body shops that don't deal primarily with insurance claims. These are usually more resourceful and accustomed to working with used parts on older cars, etc.
To give you an idea, the total bill, including paint, to R/R the right rear quarter panel on my 83 back in 1998 was $2,081.75. This was done at the dealer, in Louisville, KY.
Granted you'll need a door put in and some straightening done to the door jamb, etc., but the paint work I had done included blending the door, and amounted to 9 hours plus $164 of Spies Hecker paint.
And you already know how inflated dealer pricing is.
#68
Thanks, Luis.
Repairing it depends on the rear suspension, finding a body shop that'll do it for a reasonable cost, finding some parts, and dealing with the insurance company.
There is a local junkyard with several 944s in the yard. And I think I can find a good body shop for the repair. So I guess the decision comes down to how bad the suspension is damaged and the insurance company deal.
Repairing it depends on the rear suspension, finding a body shop that'll do it for a reasonable cost, finding some parts, and dealing with the insurance company.
There is a local junkyard with several 944s in the yard. And I think I can find a good body shop for the repair. So I guess the decision comes down to how bad the suspension is damaged and the insurance company deal.
#69
Originally posted by Geo
The bloody interiors were put together with tape and glue for God's sake.
The bloody interiors were put together with tape and glue for God's sake.
Originally posted by Geo
They are wonderful cars, but they are NOT an example of high build quality. I'm not dissing the car, but let's at least be honest about what we're dealing with.
They are wonderful cars, but they are NOT an example of high build quality. I'm not dissing the car, but let's at least be honest about what we're dealing with.
Originally posted by Geo
That depends upon the owner. Also, if you were to buy another used 83 944, you may be faced with a clutch job in the near future anyway. Damage to the coachwork is an entirely different issue.
That depends upon the owner. Also, if you were to buy another used 83 944, you may be faced with a clutch job in the near future anyway. Damage to the coachwork is an entirely different issue.
Originally posted by Geo
OK, first of all 951s are more desirable. They may or may not be "collectable." But, like the 914, once they become more scarce, they probably will become more collectable.
OK, first of all 951s are more desirable. They may or may not be "collectable." But, like the 914, once they become more scarce, they probably will become more collectable.
Originally posted by Geo
To call an 83 NA a collectable is a mighty big stretch. When was the last time you heard of someone stripping an 84 944 to the bare metal and restoring one? For that matter, how many 951s have you heard of someone doing this?
To call an 83 NA a collectable is a mighty big stretch. When was the last time you heard of someone stripping an 84 944 to the bare metal and restoring one? For that matter, how many 951s have you heard of someone doing this?
Originally posted by Geo
But there still reaches a point where it just doesn't make sense to repair it anymore. A lot is going to depend upon the underlying damage.
But there still reaches a point where it just doesn't make sense to repair it anymore. A lot is going to depend upon the underlying damage.
#70
You can use a second-hand door, but the rear quarter panel is welded in there pretty tight, and as far as I know, can't be removed 100% intact... in fact, when it had to be changed on my car, the body shop guy refused straight away to install a used part, saying it'd start rusting within a year. So either get a fiberglass piece there, or a new panel from the dealer.
Been there, done that -> pic
Been there, done that -> pic
#71
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
So were 356s for that matter, and time hasn't proven them less collectible or less Porsches, for that matter.
So were 356s for that matter, and time hasn't proven them less collectible or less Porsches, for that matter.
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
Exactly, you are a dyed in the wool Japanese car enthusiast
Exactly, you are a dyed in the wool Japanese car enthusiast
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
and I prefer Porsches, even if they're lowly 944s. To each his own, but if you let a 1983 944 sit outdoors for 10 years next to a 1983 Civic, guess which build quality would prove better? But don't take my word for it, go look for 83 Civics and report back.
and I prefer Porsches, even if they're lowly 944s. To each his own, but if you let a 1983 944 sit outdoors for 10 years next to a 1983 Civic, guess which build quality would prove better? But don't take my word for it, go look for 83 Civics and report back.
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
I fail to see your point. Steve just did the clutch, all the more reason to repair the bodywork now.
I fail to see your point. Steve just did the clutch, all the more reason to repair the bodywork now.
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
Yep, and with so many defeatist enthusiasts who don't think they're worth keeping, decent 944s are becoming harder to find than you would think. Not to mention the 1983 model year. Have you ever looked for a nice early 944 rather than a beater to turn into a track car?
Yep, and with so many defeatist enthusiasts who don't think they're worth keeping, decent 944s are becoming harder to find than you would think. Not to mention the 1983 model year. Have you ever looked for a nice early 944 rather than a beater to turn into a track car?
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
Perry951 and others have done full 951 restorations.
Perry951 and others have done full 951 restorations.
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
Again, it's only a matter of time.
Again, it's only a matter of time.
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
It only takes enthusiasm to breed enthusiasm. You may disagree, but I while you like your Sentra, I personally would pay up to $10K for a very clean, original first series 944.
It only takes enthusiasm to breed enthusiasm. You may disagree, but I while you like your Sentra, I personally would pay up to $10K for a very clean, original first series 944.
I've held on to my Sentra SE-R because I'm the original owner and it's a bit of a cult car in enthusiast circles (Car & Driver's 10 Best all 4 years). But, I'm looking at it a little more reaslistically now. Everything on the car needs to be gone through and redone, front to back, top to bottom. The engine is still in great shape and has 250k miles in two different cars! But, the coachwork is dented and rusted in too many places now and it has a number of other maladies. I haven't decided to part with it yet, but likely I will and either build an Infiniti G20 for SCCA racing (same engine as the Sentra SE-R) or will buy a 944 road car and turn it into a project car. The point is, despite my enthusiasm for the car, and the strong attachment as the original owner, the reality is, it probably doesn't make sense for me to keep it. And that's what is being discussed here.
I'm not saying Steve absolutely should scrap it, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense to spend more to fix it than it would cost to buy a car that isn't wrecked and recreate it or even improve upon it.
Originally posted by Luis de Prat
Again, there's going to be less underlying damage on a 944 unibody than on a Honda, blow for blow. It's because of the way they're made that they get picked up for track duty, as you well know.
Again, there's going to be less underlying damage on a 944 unibody than on a Honda, blow for blow. It's because of the way they're made that they get picked up for track duty, as you well know.
#72
Originally posted by Sami951
You can use a second-hand door, but the rear quarter panel is welded in there pretty tight, and as far as I know, can't be removed 100% intact... in fact, when it had to be changed on my car, the body shop guy refused straight away to install a used part, saying it'd start rusting within a year. So either get a fiberglass piece there, or a new panel from the dealer.
You can use a second-hand door, but the rear quarter panel is welded in there pretty tight, and as far as I know, can't be removed 100% intact... in fact, when it had to be changed on my car, the body shop guy refused straight away to install a used part, saying it'd start rusting within a year. So either get a fiberglass piece there, or a new panel from the dealer.
AS for replacing them, sure it's possible. They are just spot welded in place. The real issue is going to be the inside parts of the coachwork. They can sometimes be straightened, but if they are too damaged, they are significantly harder to replace. It can be done, but that translates to serious dollars.
#75
Originally posted by Geo
We were talking about build quality.
We were talking about build quality.
Originally posted by Geo
And that's why I have two German cars now? Sorry, but you're wrong there. I'm a car enthusiast and I can look at all of them objectively I think.
And that's why I have two German cars now? Sorry, but you're wrong there. I'm a car enthusiast and I can look at all of them objectively I think.
Originally posted by Geo
I agree, the galvanized metal that Porsche went to was a major improvement. But it doesn't go to the point of how they were put together.
I agree, the galvanized metal that Porsche went to was a major improvement. But it doesn't go to the point of how they were put together.
Originally posted by Geo
Short memory I guess. You brought up how professional clutch jobs cost as much as some 944s are worth. I was responding to you, not pulling stuff out of the air.
Short memory I guess. You brought up how professional clutch jobs cost as much as some 944s are worth. I was responding to you, not pulling stuff out of the air.
Originally posted by Geo
I don't know about defeatist enthusiasts. Some people just want to be smart with their money.
I don't know about defeatist enthusiasts. Some people just want to be smart with their money.
Originally posted by Geo
Interestingly enough, I know someone who effectively restored his Sentra SE-R too. Didn't start out that way, but "while you are in there" turned a paint job into a restoration. It's a sickness.
Interestingly enough, I know someone who effectively restored his Sentra SE-R too. Didn't start out that way, but "while you are in there" turned a paint job into a restoration. It's a sickness.
Originally posted by Geo
The point is, despite my enthusiasm for the car, and the strong attachment as the original owner, the reality is, it probably doesn't make sense for me to keep it. And that's what is being discussed here. I'm not saying Steve absolutely should scrap it, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense to spend more to fix it than it would cost to buy a car that isn't wrecked and recreate it or even improve upon it.
The point is, despite my enthusiasm for the car, and the strong attachment as the original owner, the reality is, it probably doesn't make sense for me to keep it. And that's what is being discussed here. I'm not saying Steve absolutely should scrap it, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense to spend more to fix it than it would cost to buy a car that isn't wrecked and recreate it or even improve upon it.
First, it's a 21-year old vehicle, so Steve can obviously put used parts on the car to reduce the repair cost by thousands, and second, chances are very high that a replacement car will probably cost more money than the purchase price, anyway. So, the cost to repair may very well be justifiable versus the significant "sunk cost" that would be incurred by scrapping it, given its overall condition.