88BlueTSiQuest

A small word on 'salvage' titles. Check your state and local laws regarding 'salvage' titles. Alot of cars that receive these titles may not be legal for use on highways, at least that's the law in KS. The salvage titles in KS, and the car's registration for that matter, state 'not for highway use'.


Back to the damage portion of this thread...

Start pricing out aftermarket parts, print off pages so you can have these prices and make a list to go over with the insurance adjuster. The adjuster will only have Porsche OEM prices. If you take the Porsche prices, just as an example, a single fender can run you $600... You can get a [b]pair[b] of fiberglass fenders for $400-ish. So, I'd suggest if you wish to keep the car, start tracking down some of the parts used. When the adjuster tells you that a complete passenger door costs $2500, then tell him you can get one for $300 shipped/used(or however much you found one for). At this point they normally ask you if you'd accept used parts, tell them 'yes'. Used cookie cutter for $50 shipped and a tire for it will still be just a percentage of the price of a new cookie.

This is how I ended up saving my car. The original estimate's were in the $5500-6500 range, using Porsche parts. I was able to pocket nearly $4000 to do the repair using used and fiberglass parts, which kept the damage estimate under the 75% damage value that totals the car.

83na944

RobbyK know what you mean about the sienna. I remember polishing it about 10 years ago and kept trying to remove a light blotch on the hood. When the patch started moving, I finally realized I was seeing the reflection of the clouds in the paint. Anyway, the paint has started to dull and fade lately, so a complete paint job is probably called for. I guess that would cost somewhat more.

Dave

Jack, just as salvage titles vary from one state to the next, so do insurance regs. In NJ the insurance company MUST use new factory parts if they fix your car, to use used parts you'd have to let them total it and then buy it back.

83na944

Jack, thanks for the parts advice. It is legal to drive a car with a salvage title in Tennessee.

Dave I'm not sure about the body shop using new or used parts. Seems they have to tell you if they don't use new parts, but I don't think that puts you into a salvage title.

Geo

Once again you are confusing strength with quality. They are two entirely different issues. The bloody interiors were put together with tape and glue for God's sake.

They are wonderful cars, but they are NOT an example of high build quality. I'm not dissing the car, but let's at least be honest about what we're dealing with.

That depends upon the owner. Also, if you were to buy another used 83 944, you may be faced with a clutch job in the near future anyway. Damage to the coachwork is an entirely different issue.

OK, first of all 951s are more desireable. They may or may not be "collectable." But, like the 914, once they become more scarce, they probably will become more collectable.

To call an 83 NA a collectable is a mighty big stretch. When was the last time you heard of someone stripping an 84 944 to the bare metal and restoring one? For that matter, how many 951s have you heard of someone doing this?

Oh, I fully understand that. Furthermore, Steve's car sounds like it was extremely well maintained and has some nice stuff. It's probably worth a fair bit more than the average 83 944, perhaps even double. Due to the long years of ownership they may even be significant sentimental value. But there still reaches a point where it just doesn't make sense to repair it anymore. A lot is going to depend upon the underlying damage.

Geo

Double post deleted. Sorry.

Luis de Prat

Steve, you can get a door from Kempton's in FL or Parts Heaven in CA for around $200-$500, depending on condition. A brand new quarter panel cost me $665 in 1998, if you can figure a used cost from that. In all, I'd say you're looking at maybe $1K in parts unless you take up Ken's generous offer.

Look around for lesser known body shops that don't deal primarily with insurance claims. These are usually more resourceful and accustomed to working with used parts on older cars, etc.

To give you an idea, the total bill, including paint, to R/R the right rear quarter panel on my 83 back in 1998 was $2,081.75. This was done at the dealer, in Louisville, KY.

Granted you'll need a door put in and some straightening done to the door jamb, etc., but the paint work I had done included blending the door, and amounted to 9 hours plus $164 of Spies Hecker paint.

And you already know how inflated dealer pricing is.

83na944

Thanks, Luis.

Repairing it depends on the rear suspension, finding a body shop that'll do it for a reasonable cost, finding some parts, and dealing with the insurance company.

There is a local junkyard with several 944s in the yard. And I think I can find a good body shop for the repair. So I guess the decision comes down to how bad the suspension is damaged and the insurance company deal.

Luis de Prat

So were 356s for that matter, and time hasn't proven them less collectible or less Porsches, for that matter.

Exactly, you are a dyed in the wool Japanese car enthusiast, and I prefer Porsches, even if they're lowly 944s. To each his own, but if you let a 1983 944 sit outdoors for 10 years next to a 1983 Civic, guess which build quality would prove better? But don't take my word for it, go look for 83 Civics and report back.

I fail to see your point. Steve just did the clutch, all the more reason to repair the bodywork now.

Yep, and with so many defeatist enthusiasts who don't think they're worth keeping, decent 944s are becoming harder to find than you would think. Not to mention the 1983 model year. Have you ever looked for a nice early 944 rather than a beater to turn into a track car?

Perry951 and others have done full 951 restorations. Again, it's only a matter of time. It only takes enthusiasm to breed enthusiasm. You may disagree, but I while you like your Sentra, I personally would pay up to $10K for a very clean, original first series 944. Aside from my enthusiasm, I know what I'm buying: my own car has 212K miles on the original engine and has already saved my life at least once.

Again, there's going to be less underlying damage on a 944 unibody than on a Honda, blow for blow. It's because of the way they're made that they get picked up for track duty, as you well know.

Sami951

You can use a second-hand door, but the rear quarter panel is welded in there pretty tight, and as far as I know, can't be removed 100% intact... in fact, when it had to be changed on my car, the body shop guy refused straight away to install a used part, saying it'd start rusting within a year. So either get a fiberglass piece there, or a new panel from the dealer.

Been there, done that -> pic

Geo

We were talking about build quality.

And that's why I have two German cars now? Sorry, but you're wrong there. I'm a car enthusiast and I can look at all of them objectively I think.

I agree, the galvanized metal that Porsche went to was a major improvement. But it doesn't go to the point of how they were put together.

Short memory I guess. You brought up how professional clutch jobs cost as much as some 944s are worth. I was responding to you, not pulling stuff out of the air.

Nope. I think if I finally get a 944 for a road car project it will be a 85.5 or 86. But, to your point about decent 944s becoming harder to find, that is true. I don't know about defeatist enthusiasts. Some people just want to be smart with their money.

Really? Well, as I said, it would probably start with the 951 since it's more desireable. Interestingly enough, I know someone who effectively restored his Sentra SE-R too. Didn't start out that way, but "while you are in there" turned a paint job into a restoration. It's a sickness.

Agreed. It took a long time for the 914 to become popular. To be honest, I still don't much care for them, but it seemed almost over night they became a "collectable." That will probably happen to the 944, but I think it will take longer because they don't rust to oblivion like the 914 did.

One of the things I loved about the Sentra was it was probably the first reasonably priced cars to equal the 944's performance. But, given that $10k, I too would probably choose the 944 over the Sentra SE-R.

I've held on to my Sentra SE-R because I'm the original owner and it's a bit of a cult car in enthusiast circles (Car & Driver's 10 Best all 4 years). But, I'm looking at it a little more reaslistically now. Everything on the car needs to be gone through and redone, front to back, top to bottom. The engine is still in great shape and has 250k miles in two different cars! But, the coachwork is dented and rusted in too many places now and it has a number of other maladies. I haven't decided to part with it yet, but likely I will and either build an Infiniti G20 for SCCA racing (same engine as the Sentra SE-R) or will buy a 944 road car and turn it into a project car. The point is, despite my enthusiasm for the car, and the strong attachment as the original owner, the reality is, it probably doesn't make sense for me to keep it. And that's what is being discussed here.

I'm not saying Steve absolutely should scrap it, but it wouldn't make a lot of sense to spend more to fix it than it would cost to buy a car that isn't wrecked and recreate it or even improve upon it.

I don't disagree about how strong the 944 is. Wonderful car. I wanted one from the time I saw the first pre-release photo in 81 or 82.

Geo

Nah. A used 944 body panel should be just fine. Remember, they are galvanized.

AS for replacing them, sure it's possible. They are just spot welded in place. The real issue is going to be the inside parts of the coachwork. They can sometimes be straightened, but if they are too damaged, they are significantly harder to replace. It can be done, but that translates to serious dollars.

Sami951

Yes, they are galvanized, but cutting/drilling the welds pretty much ruins it in those spots. But that's just what the body shop guy said, and I'm glad they put in a brand new quarter panel...

RedlineMan

Steve;

I've done appraisal, collision repair, and fabrication for a living for 20 years. PM me if you have any further questions.

Luis de Prat

Yes, and that's exactly why I brought up 356s. Their quality of workmanship was comparable to how 944s were put together. Many restorations comment on how this and that could've been done to higher standards. So? They still had very good build quality and are valued cars today.

Anyone who compares a Nissan to a Porsche, is definitely a Japanese car enthusiast. Your BMW doesn't count because IIRC it's a relatively new car and probably costs you nothing to maintain, and the 944 doesn't count either because unless I'm mistaken, it's not even running yet. It's cars you drive daily and pump money into to keep running that make you an enthusiast, and that appears to be a Nissan, in your case.

No, open your eyes: 944s have held up better as a whole than any Honda or Toyota of their day. Check how many 944 owners get asked if their cars are much newer than they actually are. I know cops always think so when they stop me, and they see lots of cars.

And I said that as an example of the fact that many maintenance items on these cars exceed their value, to which you replied that "if Steve bought another car, he might have to do the clutch again." And? He already did. It's added value to his car, and to any of ours for that matter, which makes us consider repairing them in a situation like this in spite of book value. What am I pulling out of the air?

A Porsche as a daily driver isn't the smartest option for your money, to begin with. People don't own and drive Porsches to be smart with their money.

Unlike 99% of Japanese cars, just about every Porsche that rolls out of the factory has a pretty good chance of becoming a classic over time. That makes it a slightly more justified "sickness" to restore them to original condition.

I completely agree if what you are looking to have is a perfect car. In Steve's case, I think he just wants to keep his daily driver, if possible. Then the question of "spending more to fix than to buy a non wrecked car" all depends on how you go about fixing it or buying a comparable car.

First, it's a 21-year old vehicle, so Steve can obviously put used parts on the car to reduce the repair cost by thousands, and second, chances are very high that a replacement car will probably cost more money than the purchase price, anyway. So, the cost to repair may very well be justifiable versus the significant "sunk cost" that would be incurred by scrapping it, given its overall condition.