IceWater

Hello...

I'm going to be purchasing this harness for my 968 http://www.racerwholesale.com/Mercha...Code=Harnesses
and am wondering what hardware I will need to mount it. I tried asking the Racer Wholesale people, but they were not of any help. I will be using a harness bar mounted to the C-pillar and would like to mount the harness directly to the bar.

Thanks!
Tom

PSUice944

Not to hijack the thread, but I could use some input too... I have a Redline bar in my 944na and need some harnesses. I don't have the seats yet (but my eyes are certainly open and I will upgrade), so my sports will have to suffice for now.

5-point? Where does the 5th point go to? And I would think that there are some eyebolts that would work with the factory lap belt points that can be utilized?

IceWater

The 5th point is the anti-submarine belt. It goes to the floor between the driver's legs.

Tom

Dave in Chicago

Check with folks that supply them like www.northstarmotorsports.com. No commercial interest (although John is my region's Chief Driving Instructor). There are options for good harness install, best to speak with folks who do it all the time.

By the way, I ended up with RedLine Rollbar, Schroth 6-points, BK mounting hardware, stock seats, etc. Get pro advice on yours, it's your safety and you don't want to leave anything to chance.

Eric in Chicago

Dave,
Are you going to be inst. Friday at RA? Cant wait to check out your new ride

Tom,
How and where you mount the straps is very important. If you have the wrong placement bad things can happen. I assume you dont have race seats? Mounting the shoulder belts to the harness bar is ok, as is using the stock outboard stock mounting point. Make sure the sub belt is mounted no more than a 20 degrees from the seat to the mounting point under the seat. Dont run the sub back to the rear footwell!

Z-man

Here's what you need:
First, you need either a harness bar/guide or a roll bar. If you are using a harness bar / guide, check with your region what their rules are. My region (NNJR) requires that the shoulder harnesses be looped OVER the harness bar and attached to the rear seat belt mounting points. Other regions may require you to mount the harnesses directly to the bar.

Ok, let's look at some hardware you'll need besides the harnesses and harness bar. Note: the pictures are from Racerwholesale.com. I highly recommend them, and buy all my racing supplies from them. Not affiliated with them in any way, just a happy customer. (Hopefully, they won't mind me 'borrowing' their pictures here after that plug!!)
3" Slide bar:

2" Slide bar:

3" bolt end:

2" bolt ends:

Snap hooks:

Eye bolts:



Ok, now let's see how all this can go together.

First off, let me assume you're using your stock seats. Second, let me assume you won't be club racing, just using these harnesses for autocross and Driver's Ed. This setup is not approved for Club-racing, but it is approved for MOST DE environments: check with your club's track tech chair to make sure it is legit in your region. Note that MOST racing harnesses are not DOT approved, therefore, you cannot use them on the street. However, you can install these harnesses and still keep your stock seatbelts intact.

1. Shoulder harnesses: If using a harness bar and looping over the bar and attaching the harness to the rear seat belts, then do this:
a. Replace the bolts for the rear seat belt (lap belts) with eye bolts.
b. Attach snap-hooks to the ends of the shoulder harnesses. Use the 3" sliders to secure and adjust. MAKE SURE that you properly thread the harness through the slider! It must be looped over 3-times! Check the instructions that came with the harnesses for proper threading.
c. The harnesses can now click into the eyebolts you installed at the rear seat belt mounting points.
If you are attaching your harness directly to a rollbar, then you don't need the eye-bolts, just attach it and secure it by threading it through the 3" sliders.

2. Outer lap belt: This one's easy: replace seat belt mounting point on the inner rocker panel with another eye bolt. (Note: make sure you don't forget about the stock seat belt point: just use the eye-bolt just like the regular seat belt bolt - it's easier to see than I can explain it here!) Now, attach another snap hook to the end of the outer lap belt, using another 3" slider. Now you can just snap it in place.

3. Inner lap belt: Take out the seat. If you want to have a removable inner lap belt, you need to get an extender (Brey Krause sells one), and bascially do the same thing as the outer lap belt. Otherwise, do this:
a. Secure a 3" bolt end to the end of the lap belt by threading the belt through it and threading it through a 3" slider.
b. Your 968 has the inner seat belt clip attached directly to your seat. Unbolt it, and add the attach the bolt end to it by putting the bolt through the hole in it. (Note: you need to remove the seat to do this)

4. Sub-belt: Note: I have a six-point harness setup, instead of a five-point. my sub-belt actually is attached to either side of the seat rail: 5 point system will only be attached to one side. I will just explain the 6-point system:
a. Remove seat.
b. Attach ends of the sub-belt to 2" bolt ends.
c. Mount the bolt ends underneath the front bolts of the seat rail.
The sub belt will attach over the front of the seat. Not the most ideal setup, but it will prevent you from submarining in the event of a collision. Note that those with a slightly bigger belly (myself included ) will have a better fit than you skinny boys!
Alternative mounting for sub-belts:
Attach them to the same place at the lap belts. To use them this way, you literally sit on the sub-belt. The main drawback of this setup is that you have two attachment points for 4 points of the harness, which, IMHO, is not a good thing.

That's it!

Hope this helps! Any questions, post away. If you need, I can take some pictures of my setup to help you.

-Z-man. (Track-tech co-chair, NNJR PCA region)

Z-man

One more thing: with stock seats, the 'pull-up' lap belts are a bit more effective.

I also recommend using a cam-lock instead of a duck-bill type latch: it's much more convenient and comfortable, IMO.

-Z.

Dave in Chicago

Eric - Yes, I will be instructing at Road America. Looking forward to the added power on the long straights. My 968 will pale to your new ride. You are going to love tracking a 944/951/968 series car!

Tom - Z's got good stuff for you here. The clip-in set-up is VERY nice for a dual-purpose car. I can take the belts/bar and such out of the car in about 30 minutes tops. You also leave the 3-points intact for street use either way. I second the motion for the camlock, they are much easier to manage with your helmet on. I think they are well worth the couple extra bucks.

IceWater

Holy cow. Z-man, you're the man! That's up there for all time best and most consice advice I've gotten here. I think that just about answers all my questions. Thanks again, and thank to everyone else!

Tom

Z-man

Tom:
My pleasure. Just trying to help another water-cooled track junkie with his addiction!

-Z.

IceWater

And a Simpson's fan to boot!

Z-man

Tom,
Homer Simpson ROCKS!
For the complete story behind my 'Homer chart' Click here.

-Z.

ninefiveone

And to follow on to Z-man's advice...

While mounting the sub belts to the lap belt mounts means only four mounting points, the sub belts should not be seeing significant load in an incident so it should not be an issue.

I think having only four mounting points is more than offset by having the sub belts more effectively locate the lap and shoulder belts.

IceWater

Hugh,

Good point, but I decided to just go with a 6-point belt instead and have the best of both worlds.

TOm

ninefiveone

Tom - Oh no, I meant a four point mounting of a six point harness. Mount the sub belts to the lap belt mounting points.