I dont even own a socket set. If everyone voted on here, whats the likelihood we're talking FPR. 80%+?

If its pretty darn the likelihood, for $60 I may just order one. At worst I guess I have a new FPR that should last another 15yrs? Maybe the stuff connecting to the FPR is hosed? Im gonna pop the hood and eyeball it.

 

Someone please go a see this man! And get him a shopping list of tools, a PET and Workshop manual Knowledge is a wonderful thing.

 

944Pete hooked me up with the CDs a while ago. They confuse me. I tried using them and I said "what in the hell? who the hell designed these things?"

My brain just is not adaptive to mechanical stuff. But Im one of those guys that can look at a blob or one of those weird posters with dots in it and spot the monkey in like two seconds.

anybody here still pull up to a gas pump and go gonzo because you cant freakin remember which side of the car the gas cap is on?

"Do I pull over over to the right of the pump or was the cap on the right??? Damn damn! I know it was something to the right..."

 

If you do ANYTHING with the stock injectors, be sure to pull and push on them inline with their axis. Don't put ANY kind of a lateral bending load on them at ALL. They'll separate between the plastic and metal halves really easily and will leak afterwards if you abuse them....

 

Chris, you have a PM.................

 

Welp an update on my fuel issues.

Wade swapped his FPR with mine and we took it for a quickie test run. Couldnt really tell much in a one mile jaunt, but the car seemed to idle better and the thick pume of smoke from the rear was disipated. However when changed the FPR during much warmer weather (70s) than the last time I drove the car and witnessed all the smoke on several occasions (40s-50s).

I put about 50 miles on the car today. Some city roads some highway. I still notice a couple things that concern me even with Wades 951 FPR:

1. The car seems to still have lost its smooth refined nature. On a few occasions the throttle has jerked hard in first or second when getting on the gas. Like it cant make up its mind if Im telling it to go or stop. It doesnt happen often, but it still does happen.

2. Im still hearing a wooshing slurping sound from the right rear of the car and Wade can vouche for it. Many of here have said the fuel pump is kind of like an on/off mechanism. It either works properly or it doesnt work at all. However I can only assume this slurpy sucking whine from the right rear has something to do with the fuel pump. Up until 2-3 weeks ago I never noticed this sound. The sound reminds you sort of what the water pump sounds like but a little more whiny. Today during the 50 miles, I noticed the whine noticely and often. Fuel pump or not, the right rear shoudn't be making ANY noise. So obviously theres a problem unless you can convince me otherwise.

3. At high revs, sometimes above 5000-5500rpms, the car seems to die of throttle like it hits a rev limiter or runs out of fuel. Its obviously not hitting the rev limiter. But thats exactly how it feels.

4. It doesnt seem to idle as smooth as it normally does. Every now and again it almost wants to stall. I can give it a little gas and all is well but normally this NEVER happens.

5. A problem with this car over the last year or two has been with restarting the car. If I dont drive the car for a few days and start it up. It starts right up. If I drive somewhere, turn the car off. Do something for 3-4 hours and come back to restart the car, the car NEVER starts on the first crank. It always comes real close but it ALWAYS starts on the second crank. Its never been a major issue since the car always starts on crank #2, but perhaps its indicative of a problem that might have turned into the more major problem I have now.

Now, maybe the FPR affects the fuel pump and could cause the fuel pump to whine and slurp and sound all out of whack. Maybe something else from the right rear? Bad fuel filter? Fuel pump relay?

Im no mechanic. You all know that. But I know how my car behaves. The power is usually smooth as butter and you can ride the revs until the limiter says "no mas". Theres never been a mystery. But its not driving like it always has. Its like the engine and the fuel are not on the same page. And with the sounds I hear and the Wade experiment, I still think the problem starts in the rear and ends in the front. Perhaps theres more than one part to blame here, but thats what the car tells me as a bonehead owner.

Wade is going to put my FPR in his 951 and see what happens.

 

how many miles does that fuel filter have? maybe it is really clogged and making the fuel pump whine as it tries to push the fuel past. I have been getting a faint fuel smell from the ds front of my car lately when i let off after acceleration, but that is most likely just the charcoal canister venting.

 

I was talking to Wade last night about fuel line pressure causes. Bad or collapsed line, poor fuel filter flow and fuel pump delivery issues. No fuel smell.

I respectfully disagree with FPR fault diagnosis, It would have been real difficult to start warm. (like, NO start without goosing the throttle, then stuttering to life- and this wasnt the symptom)

From what Wade had said (IIRC..) fuel delivery pressure is acceptable. I would want to put a pressure guage on the fuel rail for a whole to verify the proper pressure is being acheived and maintained.

The fuel pump makes and unusual sound- has anyone ever had these die a slow death? My experience is that they just go out completely one day.
Right rear corner is the exact location of the Fuel pump AND filter.

Fuel line and delivery- IMHO It's worth 8 bucks to run some Techron through it to see if that knocks off any varnish or buildup in the fuel line- and drive the tankfull out.

Now that Hershey is out for Wade, and Me,and maybe Hoffman.. sounds like a burgers, beer and tech session is in order this weekend.

Unless I'm in Columbus working on a 356 motor this weekend.

Keep the faith UDPride.. diagnosis can be tedious sometimes. It sucks not knowing what's wrong, and it's even worse if you cant fix it. I feel your pain.

 

ok let me start out by saying i'm too lazy to read anyone else's responses.

now, down to business.

your dim light sounds like its caused by taking out the guages, and not quite completely getting the plugs back in right. i had the same thing you have in our 85.5, it was dim, and got brighter as - get this - the car warmed up. the temp guage didnt work. i took out the guages, cleaned them, and plugged them back in, and everything was fine... even fuel level read full full full when full!

it sounds like the overboost protection was coming on in third. my roommates 951 had this when he put chips in, untill he turned down the boost. that may not be it though, it could have been knock protection, due to lack of fuel, as i bet many have suggested... take their advice on what to do for this. but my advice for the light is to take out the guages again and clean the connections and reconnect.

-Mike-

 

OK, here goes, from my rather lengthy perspective, after thinking about it for a couple of days, and I am by no means a guru, and we will be leaning on the gurus for advice;

Chris started the car up before we changed the FPR so we could assess what the symptoms were. The car had been started earlier to move it out of the garage so it wasn't completely cold. There was black smoke from the exhaust and the smell of raw gas from the exhaust. Also the impression of "loading up" and hesitation when trying to rev the engine. After running and revving a minute or so there was less or no smoke and things seemed to get a little better but idle still wasn't totally smooth.

We put the FPR from my Turbo in, which I know was good, and started the car again. Initially the same amount of black smoke, but it went away, and thinking that this may have been just built up fuel in the cylinders, we proceeded to take the car for a spin. It seemed to do OK, but like Chris says, there were times when acceleration just didn't seem as smooth as it should be, so we chalked this up again to maybe residual fuel. And when we came back to the garage, while the car was idling and we were talking, we definitely heard a noise from the fuel pump area, but it sounded lower pitched than what I am used to hearing from the fuel pump. It only lasted a couple of seconds, tried to crawl under the car to listen, but we didn't hear it again. That said, we agreed that;

1) He would drive it a little more to see what happens.
2)He would let it cool completely down and start it to see what happens, and
3) I would put his FPR on my car and see what happens.

Well, put his FPR in my car and........................
It started and ran for 10 minutes without event. Granted, it is sitting on jack stands in my garage, but I alternated between revving it and letting it idle and couldn't recreate anything similar to what we saw on his car.

After doing a little research and thinking, my thoughts are;
Chris said he had just had the 60K service done, which should have included a fuel filter (correct me if I'm wrong there, Chris). I would definitely run some Techron or equivalent fuel injector cleaner through the gas tank, though, as that can never hurt, and may help with the smooth idle/acceleration problems. From my experience, a fuel pump is either working or not working, so I don't think that is the problem. Doesn't sound like the FPR, either. We didn't do the damper, that didn't sound like the problem, either. Since it seems to be having problems metering fuel (too much=black smoke, too much/little=erratic idle and occasionally acceleration). I wondered about the oxygen sensor, but everything I have read says that only comes into play and should be tested only when the car is at operating temp, and that seems to be when it performs the best, although not stellarly. Which leads me to wonder about the auxillary air regulator. I know it only comes into play when the car is cold. And Chris, how did the car act when you drove it to work on Sunday?

OK guys, and suggestions before we start round two? Any and all input welcome. Thanx.

 

Well I did have some 60,000 miles stuff done to the car, but I cannot vouche that the fuel filter was replaced. I actually did the service at about 66K miles since I bought the car at 61,800 miles. They did the H20 pump, timing belt, i think some new brake pads, maybe a couple newer engine lines (????????). I have the invoice for all the work. I will take a look and see what I can find. That was about TWO years ago though. I did have the oil changed about 400 miles ago and the timing belt retensioned, but even up through that point the car ran like a tight drum. Only in the last say 4 weeks have I noticed some sloppiness to the car and especially the slurpy whine from the right rear. Wade it was the same sound you heard, only much more often on Sunday.

Sunday I did 50 miles. The car overall runs fairly good. It starts up and idles okay though once in a while the idle tries to die on me which never ordinarily happens. But a quick throttle and the idler resumes the status quo. I revved the car hard in third and agan it seems to just shut down at maybe 5000rpms and 75-80mph on occasions. It feels just like you hit a rev limiter and the fuel cuts off. But Im not close to the redline yet which had me buffaloed. Ive hit the rev lmiiter in the past in the 6000rpms and was going a lot faser. I just dont think the car is pulling as fast as it should either. Maybe its all in my head. Maybe the 930 is feeling faster. I dont think its at all faster though.

I'll stop by the Pep and get some fuel injector cleaner or gas vitamins. The last gas I filled up with was Speedway probably. I honestly have never been able to tell a hill of beans difference among the gas stations. Every now and again I suppose you can get ****ty tank full, but I think thats a longshot.

And now and then the car still does the herky jerky on me when getting on the throttle in the low gears. I had it happen to me twice while accelerating out of a left turn crossing traffic.

I dont know what the problem is but it feels like the engine and fuel are out of synch. Theres no smooth song and dance between the two. The right rear makes enough of that whiny slurpy sound that I almost dont want the car to strand me if it goes kaplooey, but at the same time the car overall runs about 85% and behaves relatively tame. Its just being a naughty boy sometimes.

I believe it to be a fuel delivery or management issue. Until about 4 weeks ago Id never had one issue with the car in 4yrs and 7000 miles other than preventive expenses.

 

UDPride. Stick with Techron. It's the best- I swear by it- not at it.

 

cutting out hard on throttle - overboost protection.

don't listen to me though, i only drive a 944

its not like my roommate experienced the same thing in his 951 with me on board

-Mike-

 

The cutting out could also be the Throttle Position Sensor...
Does it only happen at full throttle?
and its easy to swap out too

 

Did you check the TPS?