EZRider

Ahh yes the puppy biting thing is an old but perenial topic across the breed spectrum I just remembered a short scenario a few decades ago. I am walking in the park with my shep on the leash. Nearby, a young kid plays with his newly aquired PBT pup of about 8 to 10 weeks. The park was big and safe so the kid was walking his pup without restraints. The PBT pup notices us walk by. The pup makes an abrupt dash to us with hapless owner trying to catch up. So we are standing there watching this cute little speckled white fireball zoom up. About a few inches from my shep the pup suddenly terrified by his predicament rushes under my dog's leg and cowers there. Of course my dog just stood there wondering what kind of nut case is this? My shep didn't bother to even grunt just watched in wonder quietly. The owner reached underneath my dog to take his prized possession away in one piece. Apparently what happened was the PBT's powerfully ingrained animal agressiveness programming. The pup reacted instinctively without realizing until it was too late. With another dog things might have gone differently. This is another good example why I take great pains to discourage my dogs from any sort of dog to dog nastiness.

Matt H

1) I never let my dog off leash around other dogs in a park setting. Too many variables. She is allowed off leash in the my back yard (fenced) or at the trainers with other dogs that have been trained. Problem avoided!

2) 8-10 wk. puppies are no different than kids, they need constant monitoring and handling. Mine gets off leash to use the bathroom, he is on leash if I am in the house (teached them to not treat the leash as a playtoy and helps them recognize that it does always mean there is going to be a walk!) and off if he is crated (danger to animal otherwise).

3) Like any dog (and Peter knows this), they can all be terrific animals if they are handled carefully and the know who is the boss. Even my rott had to occasionally be reminded that I am holding the leash not the other way around. One tug on the pinch collar and she "remembers". Oddly, dogs like to test boundaries the way children do. The shame of it is not enough people are responsible pet owners and an entire breed is labeled as BAD.
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Peckster

I don't think someone who had an eight-year-old kid steal valve stem caps off his Porsche can be called a victim.

He obviously has some other issues, but who doesn't? There's no reason to take it out on a little kid who didn't take anything, even if his buddy did. I don't think there's any way you can justify that kind of behavior.

Mystic River is about a young boy who gets caught writing his initials in some new cement, and gets abducted by two guys posing as police who want to teach him a lesson.

You can probably guess what happens to him.

It's Clint's latest, a powerful flick and Sean Penn is amazing. Check it out.

Robby

Sounds like one I'm not too sure I want to see- I was thnking something along the lines of Sleepers when you first brought it up- now I'm definately picturing a similar thing.

"Victim" does sound funny, but...by definition, he was a victim of theft...

I'm not sure that the kid didn't have ANY of the valve caps either- he was one of the ones TRYING to remove one- he might NOT have actually suceeded, but, he WAS TRYING- IIRC, the guy caught him b/c he was trying to get BACK on his bike.

The guy might have had a little too much fun w/it, but, damn- that stuff gets old. I always wondered if the kids, had they NOT been caught, would have gone for something more, like the badges for instance...?

I remember a few aquaintances in HS who went to Daytona for Spring Break- they got drunk, etc, one night & decided to see how many "cool" car emblems they could steal- they pried off several MB hood ornaments, badges, or whatever you call them- the used SCREWDRIVERS on thee tough ones! A Jaguar, Cadillac, several BMWs, Volvo (IIRC), & yes, at least one Porsche among many others... They all thought it was hillarious- fu**ing dumb-*** rich kids- I thought it was disgusting & was glad I didn't go w/them on that trip... They should have been beaten! Something along the lines of a good Chuck Norris ***-pkicking & THEN, have to pay for each & every one, PLUS, installation (I don't CARE if the owner could do it in 5 seconds & the factory charged 5hrs) plus, transportation fees to & from the dealer & any OTHER damages caused by it. EX: if they scratched the paint (they DID on SEVERAL cars), they'd pay to paint the WHOLE DAMN CAR by an exotic paint shop- like places that charge ~$10K+, PLUS, a NICE rental car for the ENTIRE time it took to do everything, & THEN, after ALL that, a little EXTRA $, just for the PITA & overall irritation it may have caused- all in all, for a nice $60K Jag- I'm thinking a quick ~$15K might do it- NOW, let's add up all the OTHER cars & then divide by the # of spoiled ******** invloved...

What about those kids who stole the stop signs for fun, down south, a few yrs ago down- just playing a game, really- they took a few & a major accident occured where someone was killed soon after- they faced criminal charges too- not sure how that turned out(?). Just an example of a VERY harmless crime that became MUCH worse- I know that valve stems are completely different, but, kids have to think about the repercussions of things like that- If you dont make issues of stuff like this, worse things often happen- they HAVE to learn think about consequences & how their actions affect OTHERS. IF kids grew up ALWAYS having respect for the property of others, these things wouldn't happen to begin with.... Anyway, I'm no parent, so I've said more than enough already.... I'll stop now...

EZRider

This is so true. Even Golden Retrievers can earn a bad rap from irresponsible owners. It's already happening with Dalmations.

Magown

If we could do that in the US, there'd be a lot of handless SOB's running around. Then again maybe not, I'm sure amount theft crimes would dramatically drop as soon as the first person got his or her hand whacked

Matt H

Surprisingly theft is not a very big crime in those places :>)

I used to leave all sorts of things on the front seat of my car in Suadi, including my wallet a few times, never lost anything.
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Peckster

You know, I kind of doubt that. You're getting silly now.

Matt H

He is correct.
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Peckster

A kid? For stealing something like that? Prove it.

Matt H

1) Not my responsiblity to prove anything to you.

2) The punishment for stealing in some countries, KSA being one, is that they cut off you hand.

Would the punishment have been that harsh for that crime, hard to say, depends on how many times the kid had been in trouble before.

Some people view theft too lightly (yourself for one). I would rather have seen him spend some time in a juvenile detention center but public embarassment is okay too. Kids make mistakes, no one is arguing that, however, since there is no punishment they think it is okay to do it again.

Kids get shot every year by police officers for handling weapons, stealing etc. Theft is a crime whether it is my 4.00 valve stem caps or the whole car is really irrelevant. Stealing something off of a car should also be seen a destruction of property.
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pete944

Here's what you want. They make these for taxi's but it looks like it would work as a car security system too. I heard a radio interview with the inventor and he says the system would run around $800.

Phazer-A-Tact

Red1

I dunno Pete. I think I couldn't keep myself from modding that PAT system to see just how many volts I could run through it.

85944na

I caught a kid stealing my porsche crest valve stem caps, I was at a buddies house and we glance out the window and see these little punks on razor scooters taking my caps, my buddy and I run down and scare the crap out of these kids. I was so mad, just made the kid give em back though, I park there all the time still and noone touches the car. Also, Iceshark, if you need more caps let me know, we have some laying around at work.

IceShark

I am sort of amused at how many guys have an issue with this as the thread is getting pretty long. At least I know I'm not crazy or someone has it out for me.

I think Matt has me covered on replacements and spares but thanks for the offer.