Really Hot Engine Bay
05-18-2004, 01:04 PM
#36
Race Car
Okie, first of all, on startup, the mixture is richened, to compensate for the colder air, not leaned to heat it up.
It almost sounds like it's running too lean, this will result in higher cylinder head and exhaust temperatures.
Do you still have your O2 sensor? If so, check the voltage on it, perhaps you are too lean.
It almost sounds like it's running too lean, this will result in higher cylinder head and exhaust temperatures.
Do you still have your O2 sensor? If so, check the voltage on it, perhaps you are too lean.
05-18-2004, 02:12 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Wayne:
Hmmm...PO cut out the cat and welded in a straight section. This could still be the cause of the problem. This section is two pieces and can collapse, causing a restriction, overheating etc. Not knowing exactly what/how it was done, we are guessing.
What tests have you performed on the car? I would not blame the headgasket unless it fails a leak down test. A leak down test would be step one. Step two is swap in a test pipe. You have already flushed/bleed the cooling system. Have you verified the proper operation of the fans, water pump, sensors, etc?
The underhood insulation was discontinued during 1988 production. If things are right, you should not have blistered paint. I removed the insulation on mine, and have not had any problems either.
The DME temp sensor may be bad, but it is easy to check. Remove it, and suspend it in a pot of cold water. Insert your wifes candy thermometer into the water, hook up an ohmeter and turn on the burner. Check the readings at the various temps listed in the chart and you will know where you stand on that one. If you need the chart let me know. It is in the factory manual.
Hmmm...PO cut out the cat and welded in a straight section. This could still be the cause of the problem. This section is two pieces and can collapse, causing a restriction, overheating etc. Not knowing exactly what/how it was done, we are guessing.
What tests have you performed on the car? I would not blame the headgasket unless it fails a leak down test. A leak down test would be step one. Step two is swap in a test pipe. You have already flushed/bleed the cooling system. Have you verified the proper operation of the fans, water pump, sensors, etc?
The underhood insulation was discontinued during 1988 production. If things are right, you should not have blistered paint. I removed the insulation on mine, and have not had any problems either.
The DME temp sensor may be bad, but it is easy to check. Remove it, and suspend it in a pot of cold water. Insert your wifes candy thermometer into the water, hook up an ohmeter and turn on the burner. Check the readings at the various temps listed in the chart and you will know where you stand on that one. If you need the chart let me know. It is in the factory manual.
05-18-2004, 03:09 PM
#38
Nerd Herder
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Originally posted by Mike S
Like Hans said....is your heat shield present on the hood? The foam stuff?
Like Hans said....is your heat shield present on the hood? The foam stuff?
05-19-2004, 08:48 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
WOHOOOOOOOO!i found out the problem!the thermostat,i took out the tstat(that was fun!) put it in a pot and boiled it and nothing happend.so i put in my new stat and it opens.all i need now is the gasket and shim(NAPA did have any).im soo happy,just cant wait to get it on the road again.btw,i also took out the radiator.now another task.putting it back in!arggg........!
05-19-2004, 09:33 AM
#42
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Several questions...
JET HOT COATING- can any muffler shop do this? How big of a deal is it to do it to the headers? I thought they were a bitch to get out? Is it worth doing? What about doing everything BUT the headers- worth doing? Does it reduce heat THAT much? What about noise- would it quieten the car a good bit?
The following is MY "HOT" story, as it's run hot for YEARS- there are some things that do NOT add up...
10/13/99- bought car in Norfolk VA from IDIOT PO! Drove back to Knoxville- took directly to INCOMPETENTS- RPM- Ron Torte' charged me ~$1500 for timing belt, water pump, front seals, & several BS hoses.
11/99- car ran hot since RPM- temp would rise FAST when stopped- actually hit the red twice. BUT, when on the freeway, it would run colder than it EVER has SINCE! I label the white marks as follows: #1 is the first fat one. #2 is the first thin one (the middle one). #3 is the top one. On the freeway, the temp would come down to slightly BELOW #2. As long as I was moving, it was great. Ron was clueless. I took it to a dif mechanic- Mike Taylor, German Motorworks- the coolant was OVER a GALLON SHORT! Mike changed both thermostats, etc. NOW, the car would stay ALMOST at #3 when stopped, &, when moving, was ~2/3 up b/t #2 & #3- Strange, since BEFORE it dropped to BELOW #2 on the freeway.
Over the next year, I replaced the radiator cap, flushed radiator, replaced temp sensor, replaced O2 sensor, replaced cat, added Water Wetter, etc- nothing really worked- it got a TINY bit better, but....
10/00- took car to Garrity Repta in St Louis- replaced radiator & BLEW my HG!
Towed car back to Knoxville- Mike installed a Powerhaus P&P shaved head (decent head, but, not as good as advertised)- Mike found that the hose from the turbo to water pump was not flowing- the hole was plugged up & had not been drilled out, so, coolant was not reaching the turbo! CLASSIC RPM! Last summer, I found that the front seals had never REALLY really been changed- RPM REALLY charged me for them though...
Anyway, during all this time, the car got SLIGHTLY better, but, to this day, still runs a little hot- The car runs, on the freeway ~25% up b/t #2 & #3- so, a little over #2- From what I understand, 951's should be right on #2 when moving freeway speeds- not to mention the fact that the engine FEELS hotter when turning the car off than it should... I would LOVE to find out what is wrong....
JET HOT COATING- can any muffler shop do this? How big of a deal is it to do it to the headers? I thought they were a bitch to get out? Is it worth doing? What about doing everything BUT the headers- worth doing? Does it reduce heat THAT much? What about noise- would it quieten the car a good bit?
The following is MY "HOT" story, as it's run hot for YEARS- there are some things that do NOT add up...
10/13/99- bought car in Norfolk VA from IDIOT PO! Drove back to Knoxville- took directly to INCOMPETENTS- RPM- Ron Torte' charged me ~$1500 for timing belt, water pump, front seals, & several BS hoses.
11/99- car ran hot since RPM- temp would rise FAST when stopped- actually hit the red twice. BUT, when on the freeway, it would run colder than it EVER has SINCE! I label the white marks as follows: #1 is the first fat one. #2 is the first thin one (the middle one). #3 is the top one. On the freeway, the temp would come down to slightly BELOW #2. As long as I was moving, it was great. Ron was clueless. I took it to a dif mechanic- Mike Taylor, German Motorworks- the coolant was OVER a GALLON SHORT! Mike changed both thermostats, etc. NOW, the car would stay ALMOST at #3 when stopped, &, when moving, was ~2/3 up b/t #2 & #3- Strange, since BEFORE it dropped to BELOW #2 on the freeway.
Over the next year, I replaced the radiator cap, flushed radiator, replaced temp sensor, replaced O2 sensor, replaced cat, added Water Wetter, etc- nothing really worked- it got a TINY bit better, but....
10/00- took car to Garrity Repta in St Louis- replaced radiator & BLEW my HG!
Towed car back to Knoxville- Mike installed a Powerhaus P&P shaved head (decent head, but, not as good as advertised)- Mike found that the hose from the turbo to water pump was not flowing- the hole was plugged up & had not been drilled out, so, coolant was not reaching the turbo! CLASSIC RPM! Last summer, I found that the front seals had never REALLY really been changed- RPM REALLY charged me for them though... Anyway, during all this time, the car got SLIGHTLY better, but, to this day, still runs a little hot- The car runs, on the freeway ~25% up b/t #2 & #3- so, a little over #2- From what I understand, 951's should be right on #2 when moving freeway speeds- not to mention the fact that the engine FEELS hotter when turning the car off than it should... I would LOVE to find out what is wrong....
Last edited by Robby; 05-19-2004 at 09:51 AM.
05-28-2004, 01:53 AM
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Robby,
Can you emphasize more on the hose from the turbo to waterpump, that you are talking about. Our problems sound very similar, and a picture, or detailed description of the placment of that hose would help a lot, thanks.
Can you emphasize more on the hose from the turbo to waterpump, that you are talking about. Our problems sound very similar, and a picture, or detailed description of the placment of that hose would help a lot, thanks.
05-30-2004, 03:53 AM
#44
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Cyrus- sorry, I haven't been online in the last few days...
I don't have any pictures, BUT, I can give a pretty good description, based on what I was told by my mechanic, &, what I learned later on....
There are several forms of waterpumps for these cars, evidently- I THINK there have been several re-issues, etc- anyway, the one that I was sold (I never actually saw it) had a hole for the hose that runs from the waterpump to the turbo- this hole, automatically comes plugged up, to be used for NA 944's- one is SUPPOSED to drill the plug out, remove it, or SOMETHING (I've heard several dif stories from various people on this, but, evidently, there is a plug of some sort which is supposed to be opened so the hose can hook up to it)- well, Ron Torte (of RPM), EVIDENTLY, hooked hhe hose up the waterpump, BUT, did NOT drill the plug out- therefore, no water was getting through to the turbo- thank God it was oil-cooled too! Thsi screws up the overall circulation, slightly, but, did not seem to make much dif (IF ANY) on the overall heat of the engine- what REALLY bothers me is, that the car never ran cooler than when I FIRST picked it up from RPM, AND, it had less than HALF the required amount of coolant, one of the thermostats was the wrong one, OR, put in backwards, IIRC, AND, the waterpump hose to turbo thing.... Yes, the car was overheating at stop lights, BUT, on the freeway, the temp gauge would drop to midway b/t the #1 & #2 marks- the fat white line & first thin white line- it's never dropped below the #2 mark (first thin line) since, EVER, ANYWHERE at ANY time after the car is warmed up. This is VERY strange- I DO know, however, that my #2 fan is not working- it is sticking really badly- it's worn out- keeps blowing fuses, to the point that I quite replacing them & just dont use it- plan to get that fixed very soon, BUT, am not sure how much the fans cost OR how much labor is involved- do you have any idea? I ALSO need to replace those underbody panels as mine are beaten to death- I better stop now, b/c really, I have ~1000 things I need to fix on that car....
Right now, I'm debating on whether or not to rebuild the engine, OR, just replace the oil pan seals & rod bearings- the seals are leaking & are a PITA, so, one mech tellS me to go ahead & rebuild the 172K bottom end & another is telling me to just replace the seals & bearings, get chips & a better wastegate & leave it alone- IF I rebuild, I will definately get a larger turbo (K27#8), as well as chips (& POSSIBLY MAF), &, possibly a wastegate (or mod the stock one)- I REALLY want a 2.8L stroker, but- $$$
Any input on the full rebuild or partial rebuild dilemma?
I hope this helps a little- I can ask my mechanic about the waterpump hose thing if you need more detail- I'm pretty sure I've got it exactly right, BUT, it's been a 3.5yrs now... Now I'm starting to wonder if I should do some headwork when if I rebuild the engine- I put a Powerhaus P&P & shaved head on at that exact time- THAT'S when my mech found the waterpump prob.... Hell, at this point, it's PROBABLY getting close to time for a new waterpump itself- ~45K- I HAVE kept up w/the Timing belts pretty much although it is about time to retension.... Alright, I've babbleed enough....
I don't have any pictures, BUT, I can give a pretty good description, based on what I was told by my mechanic, &, what I learned later on....
There are several forms of waterpumps for these cars, evidently- I THINK there have been several re-issues, etc- anyway, the one that I was sold (I never actually saw it) had a hole for the hose that runs from the waterpump to the turbo- this hole, automatically comes plugged up, to be used for NA 944's- one is SUPPOSED to drill the plug out, remove it, or SOMETHING (I've heard several dif stories from various people on this, but, evidently, there is a plug of some sort which is supposed to be opened so the hose can hook up to it)- well, Ron Torte (of RPM), EVIDENTLY, hooked hhe hose up the waterpump, BUT, did NOT drill the plug out- therefore, no water was getting through to the turbo- thank God it was oil-cooled too! Thsi screws up the overall circulation, slightly, but, did not seem to make much dif (IF ANY) on the overall heat of the engine- what REALLY bothers me is, that the car never ran cooler than when I FIRST picked it up from RPM, AND, it had less than HALF the required amount of coolant, one of the thermostats was the wrong one, OR, put in backwards, IIRC, AND, the waterpump hose to turbo thing.... Yes, the car was overheating at stop lights, BUT, on the freeway, the temp gauge would drop to midway b/t the #1 & #2 marks- the fat white line & first thin white line- it's never dropped below the #2 mark (first thin line) since, EVER, ANYWHERE at ANY time after the car is warmed up. This is VERY strange- I DO know, however, that my #2 fan is not working- it is sticking really badly- it's worn out- keeps blowing fuses, to the point that I quite replacing them & just dont use it- plan to get that fixed very soon, BUT, am not sure how much the fans cost OR how much labor is involved- do you have any idea? I ALSO need to replace those underbody panels as mine are beaten to death- I better stop now, b/c really, I have ~1000 things I need to fix on that car....
Right now, I'm debating on whether or not to rebuild the engine, OR, just replace the oil pan seals & rod bearings- the seals are leaking & are a PITA, so, one mech tellS me to go ahead & rebuild the 172K bottom end & another is telling me to just replace the seals & bearings, get chips & a better wastegate & leave it alone- IF I rebuild, I will definately get a larger turbo (K27#8), as well as chips (& POSSIBLY MAF), &, possibly a wastegate (or mod the stock one)- I REALLY want a 2.8L stroker, but- $$$
Any input on the full rebuild or partial rebuild dilemma? I hope this helps a little- I can ask my mechanic about the waterpump hose thing if you need more detail- I'm pretty sure I've got it exactly right, BUT, it's been a 3.5yrs now... Now I'm starting to wonder if I should do some headwork when if I rebuild the engine- I put a Powerhaus P&P & shaved head on at that exact time- THAT'S when my mech found the waterpump prob.... Hell, at this point, it's PROBABLY getting close to time for a new waterpump itself- ~45K- I HAVE kept up w/the Timing belts pretty much although it is about time to retension.... Alright, I've babbleed enough....
05-30-2004, 06:36 AM
#45
Nordschleife Master
Cyrus,
I was showing that important point at Legoland's, with the new WATERPUMP in my hands!
They do NOT make two different pumps. It has the nipple for the turbo, and all you have to do is drill out the plug.
For an N/A, just leave it alone, or you have COOLANT everywhere!
Easy to check - drain your system. Pull that hose off, and shine a flashlight down the nipple.
If you see just WHITE, you have to take the pump out, and drill it cleanly out!
It is possible your pump is on it's last legs.
Good luck!
I was showing that important point at Legoland's, with the new WATERPUMP in my hands!
They do NOT make two different pumps. It has the nipple for the turbo, and all you have to do is drill out the plug.
For an N/A, just leave it alone, or you have COOLANT everywhere!
Easy to check - drain your system. Pull that hose off, and shine a flashlight down the nipple.
If you see just WHITE, you have to take the pump out, and drill it cleanly out!
It is possible your pump is on it's last legs.
Good luck!