View Poll Results: V8 Swap or 2.5 16V
Do the V8 Swap
12
25.00%
Keep the 2.5 16v and Mod it
36
75.00%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll
CyCloNe!’s 944 S Build Thread
06-03-2020, 10:07 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Nice build! Your S and mine have pretty similar goals with just weight reduction and keep the revs up. One thing I have thought about is putting a non s na gearbox in as I think they messed up the s gearing. The fact that they ran the turbo ratios and na final drive shows they didn't make a box for this car but just used what was on hand. I suspect some of the engineered slowness to avoid competing with the higher cost turbo. Also back in the 80s autobahn top speed specs were much more of a sales pitch than 0-60 is now (plus german buyers actually used top speed legally unlike us) I would try this but don't want to give up the lsd I have. Instead I'll try some small 15inch R compound tires in either 225 45 or 225 50. The downside will be 5th gear on the highway. The na box has a much better 5th for smaller tires.
Did you ever end up putting the aluminum bar behind the turbo bumper? Does it fit properly without it or do you have to build some brackets?
Did you ever end up putting the aluminum bar behind the turbo bumper? Does it fit properly without it or do you have to build some brackets?
06-04-2020, 12:55 AM
#48
Interesting notion about switching to the NA 8v trans, may make the car feel more responsive. I currently do not have the aluminum bar behind the bumper but may add it since I have gap. I heard it doesn’t weight much (never took it off my old turbo). I also need to trim the fenders a bit more for a better fitment.
I recently got some 15 phone dials which I love on old Hoosier tires but they're 225 55 15 so the same overall that I have now. I'll probably go with a 23in tire next year either 205 50 15 or 225 45 15. There's a few 225 50 15s that are 24in but they are all more expensive and the last thing I want is to drop $1000+ on tires (vs$520) and find I wish I had gone with the 23in overall.
06-04-2020, 07:46 AM
#49
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
There is almost no difference in final gear ratios between the "S" and NA boxes.
Yes the S gears are a hair "taller" but it's a few percent, not something you'd notice.
The R/P ratio is most of the "responsiveness".
Yes the S gears are a hair "taller" but it's a few percent, not something you'd notice.
The R/P ratio is most of the "responsiveness".
06-04-2020, 08:40 AM
#50
I think it would be noticeable, In my miata years back I put a taller tire on to avoid being at 4k on the highway and I noticed it in every gear. 8v box is about the same as dropping down to a 24inch tire for 1st through 3rd. I would do the na box in combination with a 23 or 24 inch tire to give a pretty big change in all gear ratios but the other benefit is the high fuel economy 5th of the 8v box. Currently I'm at 3100 rpm for a 70 mph cruise and the tire change could bump that to 3300. With smaller tires and the 8v box 70mph will be 2900-3000. I still won't give up my lsd for that.
The other reason to swap gearboxes isn't really about better torque from lower ratios but to be able to keep the car above 4k rpm so you can be in the engines sweet spot more frequently.
06-04-2020, 09:54 AM
#51
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
944 (85.5-88) vs 944S (87-88)
1 3.600 vs 3.500
2 2.125 vs 2.059
3 1.458 vs 1.400
4 1.0714 vs 1.034
5 0.7297 vs 0.829
FDR (3.8889)
minor note, i know what you're saying for RPMs and feel but in my testing (early NA with a 3.37 FDR turbo box) vs a stock NA 944, the turbo box will outrun the NA box in straight-line acceleration since you stay in lower gears longer.
1 3.600 vs 3.500
2 2.125 vs 2.059
3 1.458 vs 1.400
4 1.0714 vs 1.034
5 0.7297 vs 0.829
FDR (3.8889)
minor note, i know what you're saying for RPMs and feel but in my testing (early NA with a 3.37 FDR turbo box) vs a stock NA 944, the turbo box will outrun the NA box in straight-line acceleration since you stay in lower gears longer.
06-04-2020, 10:22 AM
#52
944 (85.5-88) vs 944S (87-88)
1 3.600 vs 3.500
2 2.125 vs 2.059
3 1.458 vs 1.400
4 1.0714 vs 1.034
5 0.7297 vs 0.829
FDR (3.8889)
minor note, i know what you're saying for RPMs and feel but in my testing (early NA with a 3.37 FDR turbo box) vs a stock NA 944, the turbo box will outrun the NA box in straight-line acceleration since you stay in lower gears longer.
1 3.600 vs 3.500
2 2.125 vs 2.059
3 1.458 vs 1.400
4 1.0714 vs 1.034
5 0.7297 vs 0.829
FDR (3.8889)
minor note, i know what you're saying for RPMs and feel but in my testing (early NA with a 3.37 FDR turbo box) vs a stock NA 944, the turbo box will outrun the NA box in straight-line acceleration since you stay in lower gears longer.
06-04-2020, 10:50 AM
#53
Race Car
Out of curiousity, does anyone know if r&p gear swaps are possible? Like is there a selection to choose from other than the standard 944 gearsets that came assembled from factory?
06-04-2020, 10:57 AM
#54
I can't tell you for sure so others please feel free to chime in but there are not many possibilities. I remember searching for aftermarket options and not finding anything. So basically stock 8v and S have the same R&P FDR. S2 has a slightly different FDR but is so close (both are 3.8XX) and turbo has the lowest. The S box used turbo gears with the 8v FDR so if you just found a used S box that would accomplish the same for probably much less than buying just an R&P gear. The only combination that wasn't covered is the turbo R&P in the 8v box but I can't think of a reason why anyone would want that.
06-04-2020, 11:30 AM
#55
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm not chasing ultimate numbers or concerned with who's first at the end of a pre determined distance but the feeling of enjoyment. On the street and with the 2.5L 16v you really have to be above 4000 as much as possible and any lower gear ratio will give you a more responsive seat of the pants feeling. Just like the previous mention weight loss program that I've also got my car on you can debate each item as not being worth it and you won't notice it however when its all done it adds up...
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V2Rocket (06-04-2020)
06-04-2020, 12:25 PM
#57
I've got enough on my plate already for the car and just did the timing belt last year so I won't have a "while I'm in there" opportunity for a while. The list currently has 1p bucket seats, new smaller diameter 15 inch r comp tires (still have 18s for longer drives), new rear suspension, sound deadening/carpet removal and standalone ECU (vems or that diy tune that was posted here a month ago), exhaust manifold and they maybe cam shafts. 1st up is dropping the torsion bar carrier and putting in either 29mm bars or coil overs and all new bushings so the thought of working there was one of the things that lead to more thinking about a transmission swap.
07-30-2020, 09:59 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Oooo what is this? Girl Scout cookies?
The Lord said behold I am doing something new 😳
Rough test fit to see how the seems will line up.
I am pretty excited about this. I had one of these kits for my Turbo car and didn't want to cut up the car. Even though the 944S is more rare it's not as desirable so going for it lol; especially since my wheels are rubbing. Overall the kit looks pretty decent with any fiberglass you have to rework the edges and do some touch up. Honestly out of all the fiberglass stuff I've bought these kits have been the best quality. Thanks to Broadfoot Racing!
Last edited by CyCloNe!; 07-30-2020 at 10:56 AM.
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Jay Wellwood (07-31-2020)
08-04-2020, 04:57 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well we are wider boys... Still have to go back and trim the metal. The kit overall had good fitment but where the 3 pieces join was challenging as thats where the flaws were mostly, doesn't help that my fenders are trash though. Very happy and yes I know theres a gap at the bottom of the bumper got to get the splitter on and redo the fender cut for the 951 nose. 😁