The Definitive Power To Manual Rack Conversion Thread
02-23-2019, 02:46 PM
#1
The Definitive Power To Manual Rack Conversion Thread
I'm writing this for all those new members who will inevitably search for threads about converting their rack from power to manual. As a new member, I searched myself, and found several different threads with multiple different strategies. One common suggestion was to simply depower your power rack. That's certainly an option. The other was to go hunting for an original manual rack, another option but nearly a wild goose chase given how rare they are. So here is the simplest way to do it: Go to http://mwthemachineshop.com/944-power-rack and buy Martin's kit. The kit has everything you need to do the swap - there is no fabrication required. The kit also includes a new rack - not a depowered rack, not a remanufactured rack, but a brand-new rack (he sources them from Germany). Total cost including shipping was $780, and as I said, you need no other parts - everything is included. The rack went in with zero drama - no difficulty at all. Are there cheaper ways to do it? Sure, but there are no easier or more complete, no-fuss ways to. I have no relation to Martin at all (who just also happens to be a really nice guy), I just wanted to leave this thread here so when some member goes looking for an answer to the same question I had, they'll save themselves hours of research.
Next question: How does it compare to the powered rack? MUCH more precise, but much more difficult at parking lot speeds, as all manual racks are. So if you're not into muscling the wheel a bit at speeds <5mph, weigh the trade-off. Another added benefit is weight savings - the manual rack is a full 16 pounds lighter than the powered one, and of course, being mechanically simpler, requires less maintenance. It also helps clean up the engine bay a bit, as it deletes the PS fluid reservoir, a bunch of lines and hoses, and the PS pump (which also results in a gain of 1-2 HP, as the drivetrain no longer needs to power the pump).
Final question: How much to install? Zero if you do it yourself, and if you're reasonably experienced, it's easy to do, as Martin's kit has everything you need - you won't need to go hunting for a thing. If you don't feel competent enough to do it yourself, I got a quote from my go-to shop of $1000 in labor.
So there you have it; I know there are a lot of threads about this, but this was my experience, and I hope it helps cut through all the static and gives current and future members a straightforward answer to a straightforward and common modification.
Next question: How does it compare to the powered rack? MUCH more precise, but much more difficult at parking lot speeds, as all manual racks are. So if you're not into muscling the wheel a bit at speeds <5mph, weigh the trade-off. Another added benefit is weight savings - the manual rack is a full 16 pounds lighter than the powered one, and of course, being mechanically simpler, requires less maintenance. It also helps clean up the engine bay a bit, as it deletes the PS fluid reservoir, a bunch of lines and hoses, and the PS pump (which also results in a gain of 1-2 HP, as the drivetrain no longer needs to power the pump).
Final question: How much to install? Zero if you do it yourself, and if you're reasonably experienced, it's easy to do, as Martin's kit has everything you need - you won't need to go hunting for a thing. If you don't feel competent enough to do it yourself, I got a quote from my go-to shop of $1000 in labor.
So there you have it; I know there are a lot of threads about this, but this was my experience, and I hope it helps cut through all the static and gives current and future members a straightforward answer to a straightforward and common modification.
02-23-2019, 03:05 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
MERCI !
02-23-2019, 03:27 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
Just to be absolutely clear as I contacted Martin a while ago and he could not supply a 944 manual rack. Are you certain he supplied you with a new 944 manual rack and intermediate shaft or was it a new 924 manual rack with custom solid mounts and a sleeved intermediate shaft?
02-23-2019, 08:33 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
02-23-2019, 09:15 PM
#6
Just to be absolutely clear as I contacted Martin a while ago and he could not supply a 944 manual rack. Are you certain he supplied you with a new 944 manual rack and intermediate shaft or was it a new 924 manual rack with custom solid mounts and a sleeved intermediate shaft?
02-23-2019, 10:14 PM
#7
Nordschleife Master
What warranty did he give you that it won’t fail and kill you and others on the road? Ffs this is steering we are talking about, it’s kinda important! I suspect on any receipt that he gave you it clearly states “for off road use only” or “for racing only”, this indemnity protects him if you fit it on your street car and kill a bunch of folk. Curiously all cards are off the table when you hit a track, hence the indemnity.
Being kind of familiar with his operation and, like I said earlier, I suspect you got a new 924 manual rack, iirc it’s a ZF rack made for VW which doesn’t fit the mounts on a 944. What your friend Martin does is fashion some solid mounts that make it fit a 944 then he adds some suitable track rod arms and ends and welds up a longer intermediate shaft using a steel sleeve. Likely all VW parts made to fit, and yes they will likely fit seamlessly as I’m sure he tested it all on a car.
What you ended up with is a system that likely works fine, but who knows for how long, certainly not Martin as he’s offered no warranty and even gone to the trouble to indemnify himself. Not tested, not warrantied, use at your own risk, don’t use on public roads, indemnified. The parts he supplied you were never intended to be used on a 944 and btw they are also likely not sanctioned for race use, certainly not in 944 Spec anyway.
/RANT
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02-24-2019, 12:53 AM
#8
....and herein lies the issue. You title your thread as “Definitive” and tell folk here to go to a guy called Martin’s website and buy his product. Yet you don’t know what he supplied to you or if it’s safe. You simply take his word that it is and advise listers here to forget everything that anyone has investigated in the past about power to manual rack conversions and do as you say instead.
What warranty did he give you that it won’t fail and kill you and others on the road? Ffs this is steering we are talking about, it’s kinda important! I suspect on any receipt that he gave you it clearly states “for off road use only” or “for racing only”, this indemnity protects him if you fit it on your street car and kill a bunch of folk. Curiously all cards are off the table when you hit a track, hence the indemnity.
Being kind of familiar with his operation and, like I said earlier, I suspect you got a new 924 manual rack, iirc it’s a ZF rack made for VW which doesn’t fit the mounts on a 944. What your friend Martin does is fashion some solid mounts that make it fit a 944 then he adds some suitable track rod arms and ends and welds up a longer intermediate shaft using a steel sleeve. Likely all VW parts made to fit, and yes they will likely fit seamlessly as I’m sure he tested it all on a car.
What you ended up with is a system that likely works fine, but who knows for how long, certainly not Martin as he’s offered no warranty and even gone to the trouble to indemnify himself. Not tested, not warrantied, use at your own risk, don’t use on public roads, indemnified. The parts he supplied you were never intended to be used on a 944 and btw they are also likely not sanctioned for race use, certainly not in 944 Spec anyway.
/RANT
2. What mod ISN'T indemnified for legal road use? I would imagine that the great, great majority of modifications sold by vendors or made by members aren’t TUV/DOT/MOT/Whatever legal, yet here we are, all modding our cars, fully aware and willing to take the risk (which given the available data is what, oh holier-than-thou Oracle of the Rennlist 944 sub? Certainly you have that number at your fingertips). By your logic, anything other than bone stock is a death-defying risk, and we should run our own finite analysis and personally conduct a batch quality inspection before installing anything non-OEM.
3. You have absolutley ZERO reason - also known as “data” - to assert that Martin’s kit is going to get me or anyone else killed, and your absurdly histrionic public claim to the contrary is, legally speaking, exposing you to a complaint if he felt so inclined. That is, of course, unless you know of an example of his product suffering a catastrophic failure resulting in injury or death? If so, please save me and the rest of the board from certain danger by informing us of it. And Marrtin isn’t my “friend,” he’s a guy I exchanged one phone call and two emails with, and your implication to the contrary is totally baseless.
4. You’ve been kind enough in the past to answer some of my questions, so I’m going to make this my final public reply to you: If you have anything else to say to me, say it in a private message, or better yet, let me know when you might be attending a mid-Atlantic event and I’ll make sure you have an opportunity to say it to my face. Not a rant, not a threat, just an offer. So, again, don't bother replying to me publicly - I won't be replying to you, and I'm going to ask the mods to lock this thread so you can't continue making these sententious, craven personal attacks.
Last edited by AkechiMotors; 02-24-2019 at 01:54 AM.
02-24-2019, 09:10 AM
#9
Nordschleife Master
...You’ve been kind enough in the past to answer some of my questions, so I’m going to make this my final public reply to you: If you have anything else to say to me, say it in a private message, or better yet, let me know when you might be attending a mid-Atlantic event and I’ll make sure you have an opportunity to say it to my face. Not a rant, not a threat, just an offer. So, again, don't bother replying to me publicly - I won't be replying to you, and I'm going to ask the mods to lock this thread so you can't continue making these sententious, craven personal attacks.
Second, this is s public forum, if you start a thread here you don’t have the luxury of deciding who’s posts you’d like on your thread and who’s you’d rather not, simply because you don’t like what they are saying or because they irk your sensitive nature.
Third, this is a discussion, I strongly disagree with your conclusion of what is a “difinitive” solution for manual steering for our cars. Others here may decide what I said doesn’t matter, they may make other observations, that’s how discussions work. I’m not going to cry about it either way.
Finally, It’s a critical safety item, the solution you found for it was designed by someone nobody really knows in the transaxle world supplying a product with very little if any real world testing. If this was Racers Edge, Lindsey Racing, or one of the many smaller operations here who we know and trust I’d be singing their praises warranty or not, however that is not the case.
02-24-2019, 09:28 AM
#10
Instructor
FWIW - I sent the power steering rack from my track car to Martin for conversion. While I never spoke to him over the phone, our brief email conversations were professional. The rack was turned around quickly and it has worked flawlessly for a couple years, now. The steering feels very solid. Other than this one exchange, I have no connection to Martin.
02-25-2019, 09:18 AM
#12
Instructor
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Tacoma, WA
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My take is that difinitive should cover in detail every option, meaning a full step by step run through of each. Not gloss over two of them and then point at buying a replacement rack. Readers should be able to go to one thread and have everything they need for all options.
02-25-2019, 11:09 AM
#13
Drifting
Grammatically speaking, given the nature of the content, the title would be more correct as "The Definitive Power to Manual Rack Conversion Post".
'Thread' suggests a series of posts on a topic. Clearly the OP's post is meant to be 'definitive' or a conclusion.
The initial post does imply a brand new 944 rack; the extra info on the rack provided in subsequent posts is great. Something's still not clear to me though: is this new rack actually a manual rack by design? My understanding is that it is a new aftermarket rack (sourced in Germany though I'm not sure where it's made) for a 924. I assume the 924 came with a manual rack from the factory in certain years?
This rack, then, would have the proper mechanics for manual operation, correct? I've owned many from-the-factory manual steering cars (VW Bug, Honda Civic) and absolutely loved them. I found them quite light at speed and not at all that heavy in parking. I would assume the *factory* manual rack from Porsche to be similar and a rack meant for power use--but not powered--to be okay at speed but heavy otherwise.
Is this a real "manual rack"?
'Thread' suggests a series of posts on a topic. Clearly the OP's post is meant to be 'definitive' or a conclusion.
The initial post does imply a brand new 944 rack; the extra info on the rack provided in subsequent posts is great. Something's still not clear to me though: is this new rack actually a manual rack by design? My understanding is that it is a new aftermarket rack (sourced in Germany though I'm not sure where it's made) for a 924. I assume the 924 came with a manual rack from the factory in certain years?
This rack, then, would have the proper mechanics for manual operation, correct? I've owned many from-the-factory manual steering cars (VW Bug, Honda Civic) and absolutely loved them. I found them quite light at speed and not at all that heavy in parking. I would assume the *factory* manual rack from Porsche to be similar and a rack meant for power use--but not powered--to be okay at speed but heavy otherwise.
Is this a real "manual rack"?
02-25-2019, 11:17 AM
#14
Drifting
Nevermind; I checked out the link and the info is pretty clear that this option is a 924 manual rack with conversion to fit unto a 944. [EDIT: that's one of four options actually: there's also a refurb Rabbit manual rack with slightly heavier ratio and then the "new" rack or refurb power rack that both end up with what appears to be de-powered ratios]. I've learned about the ratios and whatnot. Actually, this sounds like a pretty good option to get a real manual rack without sourcing an original.
The only other thing I wouldn't mind more info on is the "solid" mounts: would these transmit more vibration and harshness to the steering wheel? And why couldn't some of the options--like the proper 924 manual rack conversion--have isolated mounts (piece of rubber in between)?
The only other thing I wouldn't mind more info on is the "solid" mounts: would these transmit more vibration and harshness to the steering wheel? And why couldn't some of the options--like the proper 924 manual rack conversion--have isolated mounts (piece of rubber in between)?
Last edited by Dan Martinic; 02-25-2019 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Grammar, added info
02-25-2019, 11:23 AM
#15
Another option is European Performance Specialists in Colorado Springs. I have a custom manual rack by them, and it's great. Even when sitting still, it doesn't take much effort to turn the wheel. They start with a VW Rabbit rack, then modify and custom machine parts to make it work with a 944.