The (very long) story of my AMW rebuild experience.
01-17-2004, 12:53 AM
#17
Three Wheelin'
Dave - Sorry all that happened! I am currently viewing/assiting in a 3.0L 16V 968 turbo setup and i have to say things happen. Even when you deal with the very best professionals well known even on Rennlist stuff happens, things dont fit etc. Although this doesnt seem to be the case here with fitting issues. As someone said i think you are entitled to some type of recourse from AMW.
And if after all you arent happen with the work thats why i use Credit cards whenever possible...
I wish you luck and i hope you have everything worked out with the engine running properly!
-Erich
And if after all you arent happen with the work thats why i use Credit cards whenever possible...
I wish you luck and i hope you have everything worked out with the engine running properly!
-Erich
01-17-2004, 02:38 PM
#23
Race Car
Thread Starter
Thanks for the support everyone!
To address a few things that have come up,
Christian, I have 2 shortblocks laying around, the first is my original motor, in need of rings, bearings and gaskets, I'm keeping it to redo for a spare (I have so little faith in the AMW block that I feel having a spare is prudent). The other is the first AMW block, it was stripped of everything when the second block arrived sans balance shafts, oil pump etc. It looks like this
#3 is badly scored from the wrist pin and the pistons are mis-matched. John eventually told me not to bother sending it back (he thought "maybe I could get $100 for the crank"). If you are interested, let me know. I'll even throw in some valves!
Sam, I remember near the beginning of my ordeal that you mentioned a problem with John, I was never able to find more than that he owed you $50, I just searched again with no luck. I've shared my details, I'd like to hear yours. I agree that bumping me to a class that I have zero chance of being competitive in sucks, but at the time I agreed to it. My season was well underway and I was missing events so I was not interested in starting the whole process over with another 3 month wait. IIRC, John also didn't call me until after he shipped it, what was I to say, tell the shipper to turn around? (I should have!
)
Erich, Fit wasn't the issue, quality and AMWs ability to make good on defective merchandise was the issue. There was no question that the first motor sent was junk, AMW sent another one and verbally agreed to "work with me on labor costs to swap it out." There was also no question that the head was junk (I don't believe it came from his trailer, unless he used the trailer to pick it up at a salvage yard.) and John told me to send him the bill from the machine shop and he'd take care of it. John/AMW did not come through on either of these issues.
I spoke with my credit card company at the three month point, before I got the first motor. Part of the delay was due to some problems that John had gone through with the business (the details of which are irrelevant and are not something that needs to be shared with the whole list), as a result of these problems AMW closed it's account with Visa and then opened a new account. As far as Visa is concerned, the AMW that charged my card no longer exists!
2+2, That's exactly what I learned, and what I now suggest to others when they ask about my experience. While this was all going on last summer, John told me that he decided to accept only local work and would no longer ship engines since he had no way of resolving these issues, I guess he's changed his mind on this judging from the number of people ask me about him.
Mike C, I would not want John to reimburse me the entire $10K, I knew I was going to spend $4500-5000 going in and do have a problem with that.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that he should have sent me the remainder (I have delt with businesses that would, but it isn't something that I expect), John said he would "take care of" some parts of this total and "work something out" on other parts, that is what I did expect.
ALL, I do not expect to see anything from AMW, I sent them the receipts in July and didn't hear back, as I stated before I have been in contact with AMW in Nov or Dec and never heard back. The ball is, and has been, in their court. John knows that I don't feel the motor is living up to it's potential but hasn't even offered advice on what might help.
To address a few things that have come up,
Christian, I have 2 shortblocks laying around, the first is my original motor, in need of rings, bearings and gaskets, I'm keeping it to redo for a spare (I have so little faith in the AMW block that I feel having a spare is prudent). The other is the first AMW block, it was stripped of everything when the second block arrived sans balance shafts, oil pump etc. It looks like this
#3 is badly scored from the wrist pin and the pistons are mis-matched. John eventually told me not to bother sending it back (he thought "maybe I could get $100 for the crank"). If you are interested, let me know. I'll even throw in some valves!
Sam, I remember near the beginning of my ordeal that you mentioned a problem with John, I was never able to find more than that he owed you $50, I just searched again with no luck. I've shared my details, I'd like to hear yours. I agree that bumping me to a class that I have zero chance of being competitive in sucks, but at the time I agreed to it. My season was well underway and I was missing events so I was not interested in starting the whole process over with another 3 month wait. IIRC, John also didn't call me until after he shipped it, what was I to say, tell the shipper to turn around? (I should have!
)Erich, Fit wasn't the issue, quality and AMWs ability to make good on defective merchandise was the issue. There was no question that the first motor sent was junk, AMW sent another one and verbally agreed to "work with me on labor costs to swap it out." There was also no question that the head was junk (I don't believe it came from his trailer, unless he used the trailer to pick it up at a salvage yard.) and John told me to send him the bill from the machine shop and he'd take care of it. John/AMW did not come through on either of these issues.
I spoke with my credit card company at the three month point, before I got the first motor. Part of the delay was due to some problems that John had gone through with the business (the details of which are irrelevant and are not something that needs to be shared with the whole list), as a result of these problems AMW closed it's account with Visa and then opened a new account. As far as Visa is concerned, the AMW that charged my card no longer exists!
2+2, That's exactly what I learned
, and what I now suggest to others when they ask about my experience. While this was all going on last summer, John told me that he decided to accept only local work and would no longer ship engines since he had no way of resolving these issues, I guess he's changed his mind on this judging from the number of people ask me about him.Mike C, I would not want John to reimburse me the entire $10K, I knew I was going to spend $4500-5000 going in and do have a problem with that.
I wouldn't go as far as to say that he should have sent me the remainder (I have delt with businesses that would, but it isn't something that I expect), John said he would "take care of" some parts of this total and "work something out" on other parts, that is what I did expect.
ALL, I do not expect to see anything from AMW, I sent them the receipts in July and didn't hear back, as I stated before I have been in contact with AMW in Nov or Dec and never heard back. The ball is, and has been, in their court. John knows that I don't feel the motor is living up to it's potential but hasn't even offered advice on what might help.
01-17-2004, 03:01 PM
#24
What I mean Dave is that for all of the extra labor, angst and broken promises, you deserve all of your money back. If you got a decent motor the first time and it ended up costing a grand more or something like that, well that's forgiveable. But what happened to you is not forgivable unless maybe you had a brother in law rebuilding it on the cheap. AMW claims that "our first priority is quality" and "customer service that is second to none". Not only is this clearly a buch of the worst hooey, it's lavished on a spare-no-expense web site! I think the priority is on marketing and nothing more. I'm glad you shared this story with the people who are (were) most likely to be this 'gentleman's' customers... 
01-17-2004, 04:22 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
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Well, I was kinda hoping for your original engine. This engine would be a piece of cake to put together. I dont really want to mess with an AMW engine.
-Christian
-Christian
01-17-2004, 04:51 PM
#27
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I know this may be a stupid question but, when you knew it was going to push the $6000 mark why did you not just buy a really nice N/A with records and save your self all the stress of such a large project, even though all of us here should respect a guy with such patience to put up with all of that.
01-17-2004, 09:53 PM
#29
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Originally posted by RobbyK
I know this may be a stupid question but, when you knew it was going to push the $6000 mark why did you not just buy a really nice N/A with records and save your self all the stress of such a large project, even though all of us here should respect a guy with such patience to put up with all of that.
I know this may be a stupid question but, when you knew it was going to push the $6000 mark why did you not just buy a really nice N/A with records and save your self all the stress of such a large project, even though all of us here should respect a guy with such patience to put up with all of that.
I was driving home today and my wife commented on the fact that almost four months passed without a single car related problem. My buddy is dumping his very clean 97 A6 with 60k miles because it needs seals that were replaced once under warranty, a head gasket, etc. it reminded him too much of his dads 944 and current 928. he is picking up a new TL in a few weeks. He learned from other peoples experiences, both good (his with his five Zxs, my six RX7s, my Legend Coupes, his parents lexus) and bad (my porsche, his dads porsches, his audi, his inlaws audis, his parents MBs, his inlaws MBs, and his brother in laws BMW).
01-17-2004, 10:11 PM
#30
Race Car
Thread Starter
Tifo, Glad I could help.
Christian, Didn't we discuss the one engine before?
Rob, That was one of the issues going in to this, but not with an NA. My car was already very clean at the time, the front end had been repainted and the rest of the body buffed out nice, it had 102K on it and the belts had just had the 2000 mile retensioning, the interior was perfect. I had already started upgrading the suspension and had most of the other upgrades that I would want. I didn't have a lot of receipts from the PO but I'd had the car for 4 years/14K miles and I knew it didn't need much. Then the engine went.
At the time, the options were;
A)Spend $5K and know that there was nothing left to do.
B)Used motor for $3k (installed).
C)Part it out for what I could, add the $5K, maybe even a little more and spend it on an S2 or something.
Weather I could afford the $5K wasn't the issue so much as that was how much I was willing to put into the car. I knew that I could get ~$7K for it with a good motor in it (A clean NA will go that high in this area), or I could sell off the Fuchs for $1000, return the new suspension parts that had just come ($400), and sell the car with the snow tires on it for $1-2K. It ran fine, just leaked oil and needed a rebuild.
Around that time, Damian was selling his coupe, he offered me a very fair price. I thought long and hard about it and eventually decided that I just didn't want to spend that much. He ended up selling it for less than I expected it would go for.
Obviously, I chose option A. In hindsight, had I bought Damian's 968 for what he ended up getting for it and parted out my car, I would have spent less than $3000 more but ended up with a very clean 968. The worst part is that my car is just not the same since. It spent the winter burried in a block of ice and snow, the paint doesn't buff out anymore (I haven't tried that hard), and the dash developed a few small cracks (growing steadily). The switches don't all work the way they used to and need to be cleaned or replaced.
Christian, Didn't we discuss the one engine before?
Rob, That was one of the issues going in to this, but not with an NA. My car was already very clean at the time, the front end had been repainted and the rest of the body buffed out nice, it had 102K on it and the belts had just had the 2000 mile retensioning, the interior was perfect. I had already started upgrading the suspension and had most of the other upgrades that I would want. I didn't have a lot of receipts from the PO but I'd had the car for 4 years/14K miles and I knew it didn't need much. Then the engine went.
At the time, the options were;
A)Spend $5K and know that there was nothing left to do.
B)Used motor for $3k (installed).
C)Part it out for what I could, add the $5K, maybe even a little more and spend it on an S2 or something.
Weather I could afford the $5K wasn't the issue so much as that was how much I was willing to put into the car. I knew that I could get ~$7K for it with a good motor in it (A clean NA will go that high in this area), or I could sell off the Fuchs for $1000, return the new suspension parts that had just come ($400), and sell the car with the snow tires on it for $1-2K. It ran fine, just leaked oil and needed a rebuild.
Around that time, Damian was selling his coupe, he offered me a very fair price. I thought long and hard about it and eventually decided that I just didn't want to spend that much. He ended up selling it for less than I expected it would go for.
Obviously, I chose option A. In hindsight, had I bought Damian's 968 for what he ended up getting for it and parted out my car, I would have spent less than $3000 more but ended up with a very clean 968. The worst part is that my car is just not the same since. It spent the winter burried in a block of ice and snow, the paint doesn't buff out anymore (I haven't tried that hard), and the dash developed a few small cracks (growing steadily). The switches don't all work the way they used to and need to be cleaned or replaced.