jagdhund

So I currently have 2 944s. A '86 turbo and a '89 S2.


Both are in great shape but high mileage. They also drive completely different.

I had the S2 first, it had a stiff suspension when I got it and have sense made it stiffer after getting addicted to HPDE weekends. It's almost uncomfortable to drive on some roads. It has some low end power but leaves a ton to be desired in higher RPMs. But the superb handling makes up for that.

The turbo I bought because it was too cheap not to. It has absolutely atrocious turbo lag but when you finally get in the higher RPMs its a huge rush, 0-20 takes me longer than 20-80 (or at least feels like it). But it's suspension is very soft, in a sharp turn the plastic panels scrape the ground way before you approach losing grip. Although this makes it very pleasent for road trips and bumpy roads.

So getting to the point. I'm trying to decide which car to keep.

Which ever one I keep (or sell both and buy a third) I plan on making some modifications. I can't think of a sports car under 50k that I would rather have (I know I'm crazy, but I just love it's looks). So I'm willing to put some money into it (long term).

My goal for the car is a very reliable 300hp in a daily driver-able car. This would be a summer car and a road trip car. I would want a moderate suspension, not too stiff but still the best handling I can achieve. I also would be looking to upgrade the interior, a full audio system redo and possibly look at more sound insulation. 2 added pluses would be the 10 speaker option and limited slip differential.

So the main deciding factor is what engine to use. What engine platform would be the best option for a reliable 300-350 hp with out costing a fortune.
The 3.0l?
The 2.5l turbo?
A 2.5l turbo s?
A LS swap?

Also do you think the higher price tag of the 88-91 Turbo S is worth it? or is it better to just do modern aftermarket upgrades?

TL;DR
What is the best way to get a reliable 300hp?

harveyf

My first thought is that it is a shame you can't just enjoy the cars as they were built, in stock configuration. If the 951 is in any kind of reasonable shape, you will only reduce it's value with mods. So if you must mod one of the cars, let it be the S2.

300-350 reliable HP? The LS1 is the only cost effective way to go. My basic thought process is: the only way to get to that HP range with a normally aspirated car will be with some rather trick internal mods to get the rpm up. You'll get some peak HP number you can brag about, it won't really be useful for a daily driver car. You can take almost any turbo car and turn up the boost to get more HP. Your reliability suffers with both options, although hard to quantify.

jagdhund

I have enjoyed them as stock for several years now. But I'm starting a new career and with more money I still find myself wanting to stick with the 944, but wanting more performance without sacrificing practicality/reliability.

I might be happy with the 250 of the late model turbos but the 200ish of the early turbo and S2 still leave much to be desired. My goal was only 300, but 350 wouldn't hurt. Beyond that seems to be too much for the stock drivetrain (or at least that's my understanding).

Any one have experience driving the late turbos vs the early? how do they compare?

harveyf

Understand. And I have much less guilt about molesting a "tired" 944 vs one in pristine condition. For instance, see my website under 944 Street/Track car.

If you want to get a flavor of what it takes to get big power (fully documented) out of a N/A do a search on Michaelmount123. He built an engine for a customer that was right at 400 hp. But it took a lot of tricks to get there! ITB's. Dry sump. Lightened everything. Real engine ****!

931guru

Larger turbo and chip for your 86 turbo. High octane fuel (more than 93).

You can fix the suspension with springs, torsion bars, shocks and swaybars, certainly a lot cheaper than buying it all as a turbo S. Be aware that the steering knuckles on an 86 turbo are not as strong as those on 87 and newer cars. Also, no airbags, no ABS, which are handy.

Paul Waterloo

I have an 87 951 with 290 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels....OMG it puts a smile on your face! However, I get relatively "exhausted" when I drive it. It's for pretty much car shows only and the occasional summer drive.

I had a 968 which was great.....but not really great.

If selling both are an option, you should also consider a 996. I sold the 968 so I could get a 996.1 aero car. Man, do I LOVE IT! There is no comparison in comfort, power, and pretty much handling, but the 968 was great, the 951 not as much.

$0.02

My 951:



My 996:

Attachment 1349093

V2Rocket

WGAS about value. "Not driving/modifying your car is like not sleeping with your girlfriend, so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend"
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If you want ~300hp keep the turbo.
Go to lindsey racing and buy the 270rwhp kit and install it over a weekend.
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Or, get an aftermarket ECU for the S2 and you can get the tune tweaked to about 240hp N/A on an otherwise stock engine, largely by deleting the AFM and making the fuel/spark more aggressive.

NS_Carguy

ROFL

that's the best quote i have seen in a long time

I am new to 944s but from what I understand , to get the HP you want and the reliability you want doing an LS swap on the turbo is realy your only option . From what I have read , the N/A won't handle the power . You said the turbo was high mileage , I would look real hard at the Turbos systems , and determine if they are up to the strain of 300+ HP after all those miles . you may find it cheaper to buy someone eases LS swap .

V2Rocket

no way...LS swaps are neat and work well but there is a LOT of up front cost, way more than getting 300hp out of the turbo setup would cost.

jagdhund

Thanks for all the input guys.
So it seems I should keep the 86 turbo and either upgrade it or ls swap (or find someone else's LS swap).
So not worth it for a NA 3.0L.
Is turbo-ed 3.0L too much for my needs?
So its better to upgrade a early turbo than buy the pre-upgraded late turbo?

Is it harder to try to finish/fix someone else's swap than to start from scratch?

With a LS a lot more power become easily possible, but what options are their for strengthening the drivetrain and how difficult/expensive are we talking?

jagdhund

I know their are better performing options out there, but under 40k, the 944 is still top on my list for looks (I know I'm crazy/wrong but that's just my personal taste). And I'm a shallow person, how much I like the way it looks is almost as important as the performance, too me. The only other cars that I can think of that come close for me, is the 260Z and the RX7. But I don't have any experience with them and I prefer rust proofing, reliability, and german heritage of the 944.

Braymond

Sell the S2 and take the $8K you get back and sink it into the Turbo. A rebuilt Turbo engine can deliver a reliable 300+hp. For $8K you can rebuild the engine and maybe get limited slip. You'll spend another $2-3K on suspension and a sounds system.

V2Rocket

not necessary to rebuild anything, 300+ crank hp is available with chip/exhaust...$1300

https://www.lindseyracing.com/LR/Parts/951PACK270.html

LSD is neat but not necessary unless you really just WANT ONE.

sound system...a 944 is not the car to try to build an audiophile setup, a $100 head unit and $100 worth of 4x6 speakers does just fine...

Otto Mechanic

I suppose you've heard this, but my solution was to buy a 928. If you're even thinking about an LS swap, you should seriously consider a 928. You'll easily get a reliable 300+ HP out of 928.

You should be able to get enough from a well sorted 951 to afford a fixer upper 928, look for one with a good body and interior. Engines, drive trains and suspensions are cheap compared with body work unless you have the skill to do it yourself, but then I'm probably biased since I find doing mechanical work much easier then bodywork.

I have a 944S2 for the track and the 928 as the supreme street machine/GT.

jagdhund

I do kinda like the looks of the 928, hmm.... I've heard they don't handle as well as the 944, are there good suspension upgrade options? what about other aftermarket parts? are they still supported as much as the 944?